Make America Guzzle Again!?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott

Inflation has been below target for years. I won't disagree that the ratio of CEO pay versus employee pay hasn't been getting more ridiculous, and that many are underemployed, but to say that our economy as a whole is "struggling" is sensationalism. The Great Depression was struggling.

Not to mention once automation replaces most of our jobs in the next few years. Everybody's ready for retirement, right?

The economy improved under Obama but mode income has not kept up with inflation in the rental and housing sectors for over a decade.

Just because consumer products like TP are cheap does not mean primary expenditures have not inflated faster than income.

And primary costs are the most important expense for most people.

My rent has doubled in the last 8 years for example, but my income has not doubled.

You will find similar situations in most (but not all) parts of the country

[acparker]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

But is the problem that many are unemployed, or that they're underskilled? Sure, there are a lot of factory-floor type jobs that haven't been automated (yet!) only because Chinese have been cheaper than robots. But you just have to look at the demand for skilled people coming here on H1-b visas, the employment prospects for the small fraction of Americans willing to put in the work needed for a STEM degree, or indeed, the demand in many skilled trades to realize where the root of the problem lies.

Speaking of myths. There is no shortage of STEM graduates in the US. H1-b workers are attractive because they are effectively indentured servants that can be payed lower wages and sent home if they act up or are no longer needed. Diploma inflation has also given an advantage to foreign graduate students who come to the US with bachelors degrees that do not require the general/liberal education and diversity credits demanded of undergraduates here. Many H1-b workers coming into the the US are displacing experienced US workers, not filling spaces that nobody wants or is qualified for.

[gone-ot]

Corporate manglement isn't dumb...they're greedy!

[acparker]

To continue on the subject of H1-b, the high tech industry seems captive to fads. In the '80's and '90's it was the mythical "wunderkind." People with advanced degrees and decades of experience were being replaced by high school graduates with Microsoft or Novell certificates -- and often getting payed as much or more (the dot-com fiasco was driven by twenty-somethings). The current fad is foreign workers. In each case, there were examples of truly exceptional talent, but for the most part, mediocrity reigned. Realistically, being young, being foreign, or graduating from the right school does not automatically make one smarter or more capable than someone else, or a better employee, but, hiring practices rarely follow logic.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

The Dow has doubled since 2000. And it takes $140 in 2017 dollars to match $100 in 2000 dollars. The record high is managing to keep ahead of inflation, whee!

And the price of an ounce of gold has fallen to one Bitcoin! It used to be worth two or three.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Daschicken

As for ethanol..We should grow it with sugarcane or switchgrass, not F'ing CORN. **** CORN!

I never meant to sound totally unfavorable to sugarcane-based ethanol, but other feedstocks such as corn are actually not as bad as it's often pointed out. It's already becoming advantageous for ethanol production plants in certain Brazilian states such as Mato Grosso to process corn when sugarcane is out of season, and it's also good for customers because it ends up imposing a lower pressure to the "regulatory stocks". We might also take into account that the maltodextrin naturally available in the corn is not digested properly by grain-fed cattle, and is turned into methane that is further released straight into the atmosphere, so it makes sense to turn that maltodextrin into ethanol and feed the cattle with the leftovers.

[Natalya]

I don't really agree with corn as an ethanol source. I don't know enough about the other plants from which it can be produced, but corn monoculture is problematic in the US midwest. I don't think we need to grow more of it than we already do.

[Hersbird]

The biggest wealth holders in history are not form current times, but from about 100 years ago.

Some inflation is very subjective. Sure may parent's new house in 1984 was very inexpensive but much of that was due to it's super simple construction, small size, basic features. It had 1000 sqft finished, a simple rectangle, cheap carpet or linoleum everywhere, tiny kitchen with the most basic appliances and laminate counters and pressboard cabinets, a single car garage, electric baseboard heat, no A/C, no landscaping, etc.
You can't buy a house like that today but there were 100's if not 1000's of them just like it for sale brand new in tight developments growing up. Simple streets, no parks, no sidewalks, no trees. Now the developments need 30% or more public spaces. The houses all have 2 or 3 car garages, even if they are still only 1000 sqft. Forced air heat and AC, tile and hardwood or laminates, walk in closets, multiple bathrooms, cathedral ceilings, double or triple pain windows, better insulation, etc, etc.

Same thing with cars. A 1984 Honda would have no AC, a manual transmission, a carb, manual steering and brakes, no airbags, simple interior, etc, etc. I'm convinced Honda could make that car today if it were allowed for about the same $4000 it cost in 1984. The $11,000 new Mirage is 10 times better then the 1984 Honda for less than 3 times the price.

Obviously there are 1000's of examples in electronics where prices have actually gone down. I remember having to rent not just movies but the VCR itself because we could never afford one. Pizza cost more than steak in our town. Doing pizza and movie/VCR rental on my dad's $8/hr wage was a pretty big hit to the budget, basically 2-3 hours worth of labor. Now I can work 1/2 hr and supply my family with a couple pizzas and a home movie, maybe even buying the movie if not a Redbox for something newer.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Natalya

I don't really agree with corn as an ethanol source.

I used to think that way too, but now I see it as another viable option. What I disagree are one-size-fits-all policies favoring a single feedstock.

I don't know enough about the other plants from which it can be produced, but corn monoculture is problematic in the US midwest.

Indeed. But do you think a wider support for sugarcane-based ethanol wouldn't lead to the same problem in other regions? Unfortunately, most of the commercial agriculture is based around monocultures. Anyway, a positive aspect of ethanol is that it can rely on nearly every source of sugar (either sucrose, fructose, maltose, among others), starch and cellulose, so many residues from the industrial processing of food items and a wide array of other cash-crops such as cotton and timber can be used as a feedstock. Sweden has pioneered the commercial production of cellulosic ethanol early in the 20th century relying mostly on residues from the paper industry, for example.

I don't think we need to grow more of it than we already do.

I also don't think more corn would be required, as long as it was integrated to other possible feedstocks as a way to ensure a more stable offer all-year round. That's why I am supportive of corn-based ethanol, as much as I am also supportive of grape-based ethanol, in-between sugarcane seasons. Italian ethanol made out of grape had already been imported here in Brazil as a way to overcome shortages and keep the "regulatory stocks" a couple of times, then I see no reason why the wineries in my state don't receive any incentive to brew it from the pressed grape leftovers.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Daschicken

As for ethanol..We should grow it with sugarcane or switchgrass

OR

Have Elon Musk's Boring Company quickly create an inexpensive* aqueduct/tunnel below sea-level from the Pacific to Death Valley. Then farm oil-producing algae in ponds under inflated solar collectors.

And use Death Valley to kill OPEC.

*energy producing!