Make less garbage.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by 04_Sentra

They would say that they'll be dead by the time that the Earth becomes uninhabitable so what do they care.

Pessimists. I much prefer my neighbor's attitude: a few years after I bought this place, he decided to plant a few Sequoia trees. Now that's optimism, 'cause he was 88 then. 96 now, and still going strong, too.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by bennelson

I had heard that the Romans did a fine job of stripping the countryside.

Nor were the Romans the first. Consider this from Plato:

"[In earlier days] Attica yielded far more abundant produce. In comparison of what then was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body; all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left. But in the primitive state of the country, the mountains were high hills covered with soil, and plains were full of rich earth, and there was abundance of wood in the mountains. Of this last traces still remain, for although some of the mountains now only afford sustenance to bees, not so very long ago there were still to be seen roofs of timber cut from trees growing there, which were of such a size sufficient to cover the largest houses; and there were many other high trees, cultivated by man and bearing abundance of food for cattle."

"Moreover, the land reaped the benefit of the annual rainfall, not as now losing the water which flows off the bare earth into the sea, but, having an abundant supply in all places, and receiving it into herself and treasuring it up in the close clay soil, it let off into the hollows the streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying."

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by 04_Sentra

Saying that the problem is overpopulation oversimplifies the problem. The problem is over consumption not over population. Humans have always managed to over consume their resources even with much lower population than we have today.

MY problem is overpopulation. 20 years ago I selected my house because of it's off the beaten path/quiet/semi private location. Almost of the development in this community has happened/is happening all around me for some strange reason. I listen to construction equipment and dump trucks for 3 seasons a year for the last 10 years. Traffic has increased in front of my house, oh, 10x? Someone ran over my cat. They added another runway to the airport which (used to) be 4 miles out but is rapidly getting encircled- the result is flight paths right over my end of town. But enough about my town and how much the quality of life has gone down. Were I to bail out of this hell hole and go back to the farm... well, a few year ago they "improved" the rural two lane road and now it seems like every semi in the tri-state area feels the need to use it. There is a LOT of jet noise from the intl airport 90 miles away! And other misc B.S. that clearly says that spot has gone to pot too. Oh, there's a 3rd spot "in the family" I could go; where Grandpa's summer cabin is. Trouble is, "development" there means there are 3x the amount of cabins now vs when I was a kid, and every one of them appears to have 10x the number of lightly muffled engine powered **** than they used to, not to mention the rednecks with open piped pickups and bikes that can be clearly heard across the lake- that is, when it isn't buzzing with jetskis and motorboats. Except in the winter, it's quieter in town!

The trend in this state is clear: you have to go way waaayyyyyy out in the middle of nowhere to get away, and even then you can't because the mud trucks, atvs, dirt bikes, and whatnot will proudly let you know you ain't alone.

I don't even need to bring up the traffic situation- "rural", small town, city- all of it way more congested in only the snapshot of time which is my experience. Where does it end? Seriously? When the entire continental U.S. looks like Jersey?

I wintered in California- Oh what a beautiful place... it USED to be. Weather is nice but the area now is little more than a support system for traffic and the infestation of humans that clog the place up. I have an acquaintance that grew up where I stayed, 40 years ago. He says, Wow how great it was, but now it's wrecked. No way will he go back, probably not even for a visit. I concur, it may be nice enough for me to visit again but I don't want to live there. I guess I was born 80 years too late.

The problems are overpopulation and overconsumption BOTH.

[gone-ot]

...the proverbial urban "...ant hill..." versus the proverbial rural "...off the beaten path..."