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Old 11-06-2009, 05:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny View Post
Because what the manufacturer often recommends is the bare minimum of what the engine requires for filtration. Aftermarket is almost always better at filtration.
I strongly disagree.

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Old 11-06-2009, 06:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't think I agree with the idea of planned obsolescence either, honestly. I've seen far too many vehicles last for 10 years or more with very little to nearly no maintenance to really believe in it, and then you've got the "lifetime" powertrain warranties...
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Compare a Hyundai OEM filter with a Fram. The Fram loses badly. Thinner can, less filter media, PAPER ENDCAPS, flimsier bypass valve, poorer gasket materials, etc. The OEM is superior by far.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
I don't think I agree with the idea of planned obsolescence either, honestly. I've seen far too many vehicles last for 10 years or more with very little to nearly no maintenance to really believe in it, and then you've got the "lifetime" powertrain warranties...
I think planned obsolescence is very real, but I think the manufacturers are considerably more stylish and nonchalant about it. They don't want their engines to fail or other mechanical parts to necessarily fall apart on a schedule, but they do want the car to start showing its age after a couple years, to encourage you to buy a new one - not because your old one failed you (then you might not buy another of THEIRS) but because it's just getting old and we're all dumb enough (at minimum until our 30's or so) to treat vehicles as fashion accessories instead of a utility. An example of this would be the disappearance of bumpers from cars, an '81 Escort could take a pretty good hit on its shock-mounted bumpers without showing any real signs of damage. A 2001 Escort would take the same hit but the front "bumper cover" would flake off some of its paint, maybe a couple clips would break and it would sag a bit, making the car look just a little less cool to its owner.

Along those lines I also think that ease of repair is intentionally de-prioritized to increase the labor cost of fixing your old junk, decrease the ease of aftermarket suppliers in supplying parts, and reduce your likelyhood of fixing your own old car rather than buying a new one.

I don't think any of this is a strong push or high priority engineering goal of the automotive manufacturers.... but I do think it still is an inherent and intentional part of the automobile industry.

That being said, I believe OEM/dealer-supplied oil filters are of good quality in general, as are the OEM-supplied lubricants and other various parts. I don't think they are trying to make your car stop working as part of some elaborate scheme to steal your wallet.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Just got a huuuuge box of WIX oil filters, 42% off
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Ford dealers use Motorcraft filters and those are just as lame as the cheap Fram, Pennzoil, STP, etc filters.

Baldwin and Wix are my favorites.
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Old 11-08-2009, 05:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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My company makes the media for the WIX filters, Fram, Baldwin, Donaldson, Motocraft, Cummins, Fleetguard... I could keep going... I am sorry to disappoint you guys, but I am immersed in this stuff daily. The manufactures ask for specific efficiencies, "dust holding capacity" i.e. longevity, and physical properties such as stiffness, burst pressure, and tensile (pulling) strength. These factors are all weight across the almighty dollar. Usually the dollar wins this fight. I have to defer to Shovel for the more precise and accurate description of the "planned obsolescence".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99LeCouch View Post
Compare a Hyundai OEM filter with a Fram. The Fram loses badly. Thinner can, less filter media, PAPER ENDCAPS, flimsier bypass valve, poorer gasket materials, etc. The OEM is superior by far.
You are talking about the ExtraGuard and Toughguard filters... My company makes the filter media that goes into them, I can tell you that the reason that Honeywell (the owners of Fram) choose to make those particular filters with paper endcaps is because they are inexpensive to manufacture. Therefore they sell for an inexpensive price, and subsequently gain market share. The almighty dollar at work again.

As an aside, The Fram ExtendendGuard is "canned" at Fram, but the actual filter cartridge is made by a company up in Canada called Maddocks. Maddocks uses metal endcaps, expanded metal backing, and media that my boss (now retired) and I developed. The Honeywell people sell it as a premium filter, at a premium price, because it is a premium filter. The Fram name is a dog with fleas because they have been using paper endcaps for too long.

Back to the subject, the Fram filter in question on this thread was damaged by a strap wrench, and it is from poor filter construction, the can is too thin. The filter was not crushed by the mechanical stresses of the engine, because the "crushed" portions of the filter are in a spiral, hence rotational stress, not differential pressure. I side with ChrisT on this one.
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Old 11-08-2009, 06:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Agreed, the ExtendedGuard is a great filter. It is pretty pricey at $8-10. So I don't use it since there are other filters out there built similarly at $5-6. Or $1 on closeout a while back...

I used to use Fram before I knew better filters were available for the price. I'll still use one if somebody gives me one.

Orange can Fram filters and Hyundai engines still don't mix.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:19 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Most oil filters are way over kill. A simple oil screen could nearly do as well. If the screen is small enough it will catch anything largeish, the smaller stuff won't cause any damage if it is smaller than the thickness of the oil layer on load barring parts.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
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That's pretty much where I'm coming from. I have cars that never even HAD oil filters from the factory... yes filtering oil is a great thing but come on, it isn't the kind of thing where one filter media will destroy your engine while another will allow it to go 7,000,000 miles.

I DON'T CARE if the case is thin or some piece of it is cardboard. I've never had one fall apart. And from what I can tell, none of mine have ever failed internally either i.e. oil passing through unfiltered. That means they did the job right? Right.

Stick just about any filter in there, even a cheap*** Fram, and if it has the right features i.e. valving and such it will do the job. I have a Tempo that was fed cheap filters and regular dino oil from new... it's now 25 years old with almost 300,000 miles... the body is rotting away but the engine still runs great... there ya have it.

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