Mercedes aero engineer: Cd of .20 feasible in production cars within 10 yrs

[Jethro]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

So this is where the "Bigger, Better, Faster, More" philosophy got us: as time went by cars had bigger Cd, bigger frontal area, bigger fuel consumption, etc...
Only was it really better?

Are you sure about all of that? My '76 RamCharger was smaller than my '00 Ram. I have a smaller engine that produces more power (360 vs 440) and I get double the mileage (16 vs 8). I think the 'Better" part of your original saying applies to fuel mileage too.

Hell, the C5 Vette will easily get 30 MPG out cruising, not bad for a Sports Car!

What is the Cd of a Corvette? It's about a wedge of cheese... I'd think it'd be pretty good!

[Piwoslaw]

Jethro: You got me!
By no means did I give the full picture, where average FE has gone up since, say, the 1960's or '70's. In my post I was referring to the masses of people giving up econocars for SUV's and phat-@$$ pickup trucks. Plus the fact that today's "superslick" Cd's of circa 0.24-0.28 were something new back in the 1930's and '40's. Since then car companies have been reinventing the wheel every few years, repackaging it and advertising it as if it was a first.

[Frank Lee]

Another thing about many "firsts" is that the "discoverer", upon having his epiphany, thinks this is the first time anyone thought of it. L O L ! Outside of electronics, much of what we think is "new" and "hi tech" today was discovered and reasonably refined 80-100 years ago.

[The Toecutter]

Originally Posted by aerohead

here are pics

Do you happen to have more info on this F-300? Every internet search I have done has turned up a 3-wheeled vehicle designed to tilt in turns(similar to a car called the "Carver"), with the two front wheels being exposed. This three-wheeler is often referred to as the Mercedes-Benz F300 LifeJet, and I know for a fact that this is not same the car you have referred to and posted pics of. Maybe the photo you posted has the wrong name?

I'm trying to gather specs on all of the hyper-efficient cars I can find. I want to know Cd, curb weight, engine type/displacement/horsepower, mpg, 0-60 mph acceleration, and top speed, mainly, along with any notable features the car has.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by The Toecutter

Do you happen to have more info on this F-300? Every internet search I have done has turned up a 3-wheeled vehicle designed to tilt in turns(similar to a car called the "Carver"), with the two front wheels being exposed. This three-wheeler is often referred to as the Mercedes-Benz F300 LifeJet, and I know for a fact that this is not same the car you have referred to and posted pics of. Maybe the photo you posted has the wrong name?

I'm trying to gather specs on all of the hyper-efficient cars I can find. I want to know Cd, curb weight, engine type/displacement/horsepower, mpg, 0-60 mph acceleration, and top speed, mainly, along with any notable features the car has.

The Toecutter,sorry,I'm brain dead,and will have to dig the article back out.The photo of the 100-mpg M-B was small,with just a brief commentary.
I've seen no reference to it since,however I let all my subscriptions laps,and I have no idea what I've missed.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by The Toecutter

Do you happen to have more info on this F-300? Every internet search I have done has turned up a 3-wheeled vehicle designed to tilt in turns(similar to a car called the "Carver"), with the two front wheels being exposed. This three-wheeler is often referred to as the Mercedes-Benz F300 LifeJet, and I know for a fact that this is not same the car you have referred to and posted pics of. Maybe the photo you posted has the wrong name?

I'm trying to gather specs on all of the hyper-efficient cars I can find. I want to know Cd, curb weight, engine type/displacement/horsepower, mpg, 0-60 mph acceleration, and top speed, mainly, along with any notable features the car has.

I found the F300 article.AUTOMOBILE MAGAZINE,March,1997,page 10.
The article was by Georg Kacher.
The photo credit is: KPG PHOTOGRAPHY / AUTO BILD.
You might hook up with the magazine online and get directed to Mr.Kacher,or if near a newstand,check for the magazine's address and send them slow mail,Attn: Georg Kacher.
A F200 concept was displayed at the Paris Auto Show.
The F300 is :5-passenger
' B-class'
1760-pounds
3-cyl with cylinder de-activation
high-pressure common rail EFI
Balance-shafts
TDI 1.8-liter
110-Bhp
CVT (transmission)
FWD
0-60 mph in under 10-secs
110 mph top speed
100-mpg
That's all I have.Good luck,and let us know if you locate additional info.

[vwdevotee]

In the interceding 25~30 years, have any car companies claimed to beat teh Probe V's 0.137 Cd?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by vwdevotee

In the interceding 25~30 years, have any car companies claimed to beat teh Probe V's 0.137 Cd?

To my knowledge,no auto maker has claimed a 'producible' automobile at lower than Cd 0.137.
The closed-course pulse-and-glide set have reached down below Cd 0.8 ( NUNA-3).Not sure the typical consumer is quite ready for that one.

[aerohead]

I found the original article and we scanned the photo into PhotoShop for a larger image.
A more conservative 'look' than the 2016 M-B slider-tail and 10-counts lower Cd

[NeilBlanchard]

Thanks for resuscitating this thread. Here's a low drag Mercedes concept, with a Cd of 0.19:



This is from Wikipedia, but it looks eerily familiar - the Bionic (aka Boxfish) car is also Cd 0.19: