Might get a 2011 Honda CBR250R

[dcb]

Just to clarify, my opposition is to drawing a connection between performance and safety, where there is none. The end game is you are discouraging smaller (and somewhat more efficient) bikes on a false perception. There is no pissing match per-se, just clearing up of misconceptions:

tedius data follows:
http://isddc.dot.gov/OLPFiles/NHTSA/013695.pdf
"Note that the
large motorcycles (750~ and above) represent approximately one-third of all the
accidents but are involved in approximately one-half of these fatal accidents."

[user removed]

One way to see the difference is to compare insurance costs. I guess I could probably get a bike that did 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. If that makes it more safe I would have a hard time believing the insurance rates would be 400% higher (which it is).

Reminds me of the end of the super car era around 1970. One of the local hot rodders bought a 69 Boss 429 Mustang, the one with the OHC engine Ford was trying to get approved for Nascar for about $4500 new. Within a few months his insurance was $3000 a year, which at the time was 25% of the amount of wages you needed to make to reach the limit of having to pay into Social Security. In todays money that would equate to something like $20k per year for insurance on one car!

The little CBR is rated at just under 9 seconds 0-60, which is faster than the most powerful 57 Chevy sold new. A 1970 340 Challenger was good for 0-60 in 7 seconds. My 4 cylinder Altima is supposed to be in the 7.5-8 second range.

Personally I can not remember when power saved me from an accident or a dangerous situation, which usually requires brakes or serious changes in direction. I can remember one time when power could have got me killed when a driver ran a red light and would have t-boned me in the drivers door if I had not seen him, even though my might was green. If some jerk wont let me on the Interstate I just drive down the shoulder and let the spray of debris convince them otherwise. Of course not on a bike, but slamming on the brakes on an approach ramp is the recipe for getting nailed in the arse.

regards
Mech

[jkv357]

Well I guess I don't have any believers here, but acceleration gives you one more option(in addition to maintaining the same speed or braking). Options = safety. I'm not talking turbo Busa here, just more than a small displacement tall-geared cycle.

Picture being stopped on a side street (no light) and needing to merge into busy traffic flow, riding a 125 geared-up a bunch isn't going to cut it. Again, it all depends on your riding conditions, but at times the ability to accelerate can be very important.


Jay

[dcb]

Opinion vs data. You don't need to justify wanting a larger bike by deriding smaller bikes. I had a fj1200 for a while and loved it, but got rid of it because the amount of times where the extra power might have helped me (never) vs the number of times where it almost killed me (daily) just didn't add up. I think it was actually a "death bike" where one of the previous owners died on it.

And I'll be the judge of what "cuts it" for me, thank you. Power is a crutch for lack of finesse sometimes, and abused the rest of the time.

Besides you haven't tried it, so what do you know? As alvaro hints at, it only really affects performance off the line, you can still downshift if you are out of first. I am usually in third by the time I cross the intersection anyway. My front sprocket was like $7, and took 30 minutes, why talk yourself out of that easiest and most economical and reversible mods?

[user removed]

Ratios

Primary
2.808
Final
2.714
Transmission
3.333
2.118
1.571
1.304
1.115
0.963

Valve check-16,000 adjust if necessary
Oil changes-8,000
Air filter-12,000

I was surprised by the oil change intervals.

The main bearings are shells (not balls or roller). Con rod big ends are needle bearings.

Seems to be very low maintenance for a bike. Valve adjustments are shims so probably not much chance of doing that in my garage, but if they want too much I can tear it down and measure then order the proper shims. Did that on my 73 Alfa GTV in 1982, drove it another 100 k miles and valves were still in spec. On the Alfa you had to pull both cams to get the buckets out then replace the shims on top of the valve stems. Measured before taking the cams out. I wonder if the cylinders are wet liners like the Alfa.

regards
Mech

[jkv357]

Originally Posted by dcb

Opinion vs data. You don't need to justify wanting a larger bike by deriding smaller bikes. I had a fj1200 for a while and loved it, but got rid of it because the amount of times where the extra power might have helped me (never) vs the number of times where it almost killed me (daily) just didn't add up. I think it was actually a "death bike" where one of the previous owners died on it.

And I'll be the judge of what "cuts it" for me, thank you. Power is a crutch for lack of finesse sometimes, and abused the rest of the time.

Besides you haven't tried it, so what do you know? As alvaro hints at, it only really affects performance off the line, you can still downshift if you are out of first. I am usually in third by the time I cross the intersection anyway. My front sprocket was like $7, and took 30 minutes, why talk yourself out of that easiest and most economical and reversible mods?

Can you disagree with someone without constantly insulting them?

You've got no idea what I've owned, how long I've ridden, or what my skill level is on a cycle.

Really.


Jay

[dcb]

Can you say "thanks for taking the time to support your arguments, I didn't realize that power doesn't make me any safer."?

You are perpetuating a patently wrong and misguided viewpoint, what do you expect? a cookie?

[PaulB2]

Just to add to the fun of this argument, I don't believe jkv is that far off.

For one thing, insurance rates are not very convincing. All they tell us is that most of those who have lots of power use it. If you have lots of power but don't use it, your rates are still high because they are determined by averages.

It's not so obvious that good power adds safety like good brakes do. Yet, I have at times accelerated for safety reasons, mainly to get a little more interval ahead of someone driving too close or someone who is a poor driver.

I suspect there is some optimal amount of power - enough that you can set the intervals you want and go the speeds that surrounding traffic is going, but not so much that if you sneeze you will do a wheelie. I doubt even dcb would go out on a freeway, in a traffic lane (not shoulder) on a moped. Safety is best when you can keep up with traffic. Slow drivers are notorious for causing accidents, due to impatient people trying to get around them.

I have a YZF600R. It has very reasonable insurance rates even though it is 412 lb dry and 100 hp. It's got way more power than I need, but I can't chop off a couple of cylinders. Worse is that the throttle is touchy; if I had to make more hand rotation to get the same amount of power I'd be much happier with the bike. On the other hand it has one of the best stock braking systems ever put on a production bike. I still want to sell it. It's obviously over the optimum amount of power for me.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by dcb

FYI, I've gone to the stops with the gear changes on my 250 and my 125 and it is no problem for commuting purposes
took my 250 from a 47 tooth rear to a 37, no prob once you are used to it.
took my cb125 from a 15 front to a 17 no prob, and have a 34 tooth rear en route(was 40).

Those are considerable gearing changes

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by jkv357

Well I guess I don't have any believers here, but acceleration gives you one more option(in addition to maintaining the same speed or braking). Options = safety.

That option can mean safety, but it doesn't necessarily mean safety.

Power saved my bacon once, and only once in over 50K miles.
I was overtaking a car when someone was slowly approaching the road from a driveway - I just knew he wasn't going to stop.
He got onto the road as I was crossing back into the right lane, WOT.
Now that's too close for comfort to me.

My car will do 0-60 in like 12 seconds - going flat out.
Even a regeared bike will easily match that.