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Old 08-02-2011, 09:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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After reading several comparos, between the Ninja & the Honda, the Ninja got higher marks. Too early to tell about mileage comparos. And that has so much to do with how someone operates the machine. After owning both the early & late Kawis, I hardly use the later one. The early one handles better after I reworked the suspension (both ends) , but the 08 & later came with better suspension from the factory, slightly better brakes & 17" tires, though the right tires on the early 16"ers are really good. I don't like the fact that, after all this time (22 yrs), Kawasaki chose not to up the power, of the motor, and instead actually reduced the power. Since most people don't own both, it's hard for them to understand what I'm talking about here. I think a lot of people equate the looks thing as better, without understanding how the whole package has to work. I would strongly recommend a 07 or earlier, preferably with low miles & service records, over the 08 or later. And really nice ones can be had for under 2 grand.

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Old 08-02-2011, 10:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Honda CBR250R thumper FTW! It will be taking the efficiency prize, the rest is fluff
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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What's the gearing ?
I'd expect it to be geared short so it feels sporty despite the small displacement.

What sort of gearing would it be able to pull off ?
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
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...I've never understood short gearing. With tall gears you have the option to shift back. What option do you have with short gears?
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Me neither, it is a "performance" thing, give you a bunch of gears close together so you can accelerate better within a narrower vehicle speed range.

If you were on a track where you were not ever hitting top gear it might be useful to put all the gears closer so you have more at your disposal. On the street, and especially if eco-minded and doing lots of time at lower rpms, wider is usually better, IMHO.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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At a tach reading of 6k RPM the vehicle speed is 57MPH. 6th gear can be used down to 3k RPM, but no acceleration, just to maintain speed. Acceleration at 3k RPM is good in the first 3 gears but in the last 3 gears you really need to be at 3500 or more RPM (engine warm of course). I think the gearing is comparable to the Rebel with 80 MPH about 8400 RPM (CBR) but top speed is much higher with the 10.5k red line. I have seen some videos of speedo readings of over 165 KPH, probably for a short 150 pound rider in a full tuck behind the windshield. Most times I accelerate from 4 to 5k RPM then shift, higher if I want to get to speed faster.

Performance compares to the Ninja with the Ninjas higher revs beating the CBR, while the CBR is much more manageable at lower revs, which should be good for mileage. Riding position was my greatest concern since at age 60 the old back just ain't what it used to be, but so far it is OK. Wouldn't hurt to drop 10-15 pounds, very hard with Italian wife cooking.

I just listed the Rebel for sale on CL, sold the 2006, now maybe the 1999. I figure the doubling of taxes and license and insurance costs are unnecessary. The 1971 CB 350 will be on an antique tag and ridden very rarely, just enough to keep it in good running condition.

Engine is very quiet which makes transmission noise much more noticeable.
Vibration is very low, mirrors vibrate very little compared to the Rebel. On the Rebel it's hard to see the lights on a police car behind you. On the CBR you could probably read the license plate in your mirror.

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Old 08-03-2011, 01:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
At a tach reading of 6k RPM the vehicle speed is 57MPH. 6th gear can be used down to 3k RPM, but no acceleration, just to maintain speed. Acceleration at 3k RPM is good in the first 3 gears but in the last 3 gears you really need to be at 3500 or more RPM (engine warm of course).
That'd be a considerable re-gearing to get it around 60 mph at say 3500-4000 rpm.
I wonder wether the 250cc could pull that off @ low rpm - i.e. to get going.
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So it's 6000rpm at ~90km/h.
It's quite similar (a little bit taller) to our Ciliegia's gearing (she has a 250cc V-twin), it's 6300rpm at 90km/h.

I'm quite sure they could handle a bit of re-gearing (we'll really try some day!), but 60mph at 3500-4000 would most probably be a stretch (except for some serious aero work, I think - then it should be no problem ).

Teresa is a 650cc thumper and can deal with that kind of gearing, and is very happy with 4000rpm @ 100km/h (62mph), surely could hold that speed with lower rpms, but I don't think she could handle anything below ~3500rpm there.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
At a tach reading of 6k RPM the vehicle speed is 57MPH. 6th gear can be used down to 3k RPM, but no acceleration, just to maintain speed. Acceleration at 3k RPM is good in the first 3 gears but in the last 3 gears you really need to be at 3500 or more RPM (engine warm of course). I think the gearing is comparable to the Rebel with 80 MPH about 8400 RPM (CBR) but top speed is much higher with the 10.5k red line. I have seen some videos of speedo readings of over 165 KPH, probably for a short 150 pound rider in a full tuck behind the windshield. Most times I accelerate from 4 to 5k RPM then shift, higher if I want to get to speed faster.
(SNIP)
I wonder what dropping 1000 RPMs would do to cruise MPG? Changing to a 1 tooth larger countershaft sprocket would give you about a 500 RPM drop. That's a quick/cheap way to try it. If that felt good and you wanted more you'd have to get a rear sprocket with about 3 less teeth to drop another 500.

Even the countershaft sprocket could be a bit too much gearing for start and stop riding, although the CBR does have a good amount of torque for it's size.

You could look at a dyno chart and see just how much the torque drops as you go down in RPMs.

Let us know how it's going so far.


Jay
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:50 AM   #20 (permalink)
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FYI, I've gone to the stops with the gear changes on my 250 and my 125 and it is no problem for commuting purposes (I'm not small either)

took my 250 from a 47 tooth rear to a 37, no prob once you are used to it. The problem seems to be mostly one of perception.

took my cb125 from a 15 front to a 17 no prob, and have a 34 tooth rear en route(was 40). Here's some chicken scratch on gearing changes FYI (though I'm sure Old Mechanic has it all sorted out)
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ges-18082.html

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Last edited by dcb; 08-04-2011 at 10:08 AM..
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