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Old 01-17-2020, 02:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Mirrorless Trucks Gain Heavy Favor In NHTSA Proposal

From a Yahoo news article.

"Revising rules that would allow truck and automobile manufacturers to install cameras in place of side and rearview mirrors has wide support based on comments received by federal safety officials.

An Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPR) issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in October generated close to 600 comments, most of which were in favor of the plan. The ANPR was issued in response to a 2014 petition filed jointly by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and Tesla to allow camera monitor systems (CMS) to replace outside rearview mirrors on cars and a similar petition filed in 2015 by Daimler Trucks North America for heavy trucks.

In addition to improved safety that video cameras provide by reducing or eliminating blind spots, several comments also pointed out economic benefits. "Allowing truck manufacturers to install CMS in lieu of rearview mirrors would unlock a unique opportunity to make a consequential step forward in the aerodynamic performance of heavy-duty tractors," the Truck and Engine Manufacturers Association (EMA) stated in comments filed in December.

EMA claimed that an estimated 0.8% to 2% improvement in fuel efficiency (from reduced aerodynamic drag caused by eliminating side mirrors) could save a trucking company 160 to 400 gallons of fuel on a single tractor in one year, based on annual consumption of 20,000 gallons of fuel."

Full article here: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/m...222053763.html

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Old 01-19-2020, 12:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This is all fun&games until one or both cameras stops working.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iikhod View Post
This is all fun&games until one or both cameras stops working.
600 comments just means some specific webpage or group started a campaign to push it and nobody else in the country even knew about it. I agree there's nothing wrong with the idea but believe with the speed the government moves it ain't happening anytime soon.

PS, on second thought if they mandated the use they could probably push it through no problem. There is always support from inside government to make government more controlling, and always support for the automakers to add more expensive "requirements"
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iikhod View Post
This is all fun&games until one or both cameras stops working.
If one stops working you replace it. No different than if your remote mirror stops working or it gets damage.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
600 comments just means some specific webpage or group started a campaign to push it and nobody else in the country even knew about it. I agree there's nothing wrong with the idea but believe with the speed the government moves it ain't happening anytime soon.
The NHTSA has been working on this since 2006
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iikhod View Post
This is all fun&games until one or both cameras stops working.
It's all about which is safer. What percent of drivers have their mirrors incorrectly adjusted? What percent of drivers don't look at their blind spot before changing lanes? With cameras there is no adjustment or blind spot.

That doesn't mean they are necessarily safer, but that we don't just think of the worst case scenario and then assume that's the likely outcome.

My hunch is that cameras will increase safety overall, despite scenarios where they are inferior to mirrors.

There is no such thing as the perfect, but we shouldn't let that get in the way of the better.
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iikhod View Post
This is all fun&games until one or both cameras stops working.
This argument reminds me of the old ICE vs. electric car arguments. You know the one. What happens when your battery gets low? Same thing as when you run out of gas, you fill it back up.

As has already been stated. If a camera dies you replace it just like you would if your mirror broke or got sideswiped and ripped off. I've seen plenty of those.

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Old 01-20-2020, 01:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iikhod View Post
This is all fun&games until one or both cameras stops working.
This is not a good reason to not use them.

Optical mirrors also fail. And we can make video mirrors robust.
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackstone View Post
This argument reminds me of the old ICE vs. electric car arguments. You know the one. What happens when your battery gets low? Same thing as when you run out of gas, you fill it back up.

As has already been stated. If a camera dies you replace it just like you would if your mirror broke or got sideswiped and ripped off. I've seen plenty of those.

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True. This can be taken really far if one tries hard enough. A mirror can freeze, and the heater can malfunction for example.

Now don't get me wrong on this.
The idea of cameras as mirrors is good, and good for aerodynamics. And cameras bring safety to trucks/heavy machinery by showing all the blind spots. My point was that mirrors are way more reliable than cameras.
In my opinion, cameras could be used more in "people-cars" where you are not that much in deep poo if you lose one or two mirrors. You still see stuff through the windows.
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I've had video mirrors for a long time. Biggest hindrance? Lack of good quality cameras and screens. Otherwise it's (in my opinion) a vastly preferable option.
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Old 01-23-2020, 05:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
I've had video mirrors for a long time. Biggest hindrance? Lack of good quality cameras and screens. Otherwise it's (in my opinion) a vastly preferable option.
OLED screens are great but suffer from burn in pricey you can place the video screens close to the driver as well no more needing to look over

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