Money spent

[deathtrain]

I know we are trying to spend less and less on our gas used to climb that MPG hill to stick it to the man with the smile. Is there anyway to add Money Spent into the persons car log. This section would be like gas log but with money spent. This way each person can track what he/she has spent and when. ( i.e. vehicle cost and cost of mods) Then in the Efficiency log the total can go there and can be added into the formula. At that point the member can find out where the break even point is for that car.

I think if a person can visually start seeing any type of ROI then it will motivate them to keep going. Even if they feel their MPG's are not moving fast enough as long as you see the ROI then you can see that you are going in the right direction.

Just an idea.

[gone-ot]

...the $-spent to achieve $-saved in MPG, ie:

ROI = $-saved / $-spent

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by deathtrain

I know we are trying to spend less and less on our gas used to climb that MPG hill to stick it to the man with the smile.

Who is "the man with the smile"? And who is it that you want to "stick it to"?

I think if a person can visually start seeing any type of ROI then it will motivate them to keep going. Even if they feel their MPG's are not moving fast enough as long as you see the ROI then you can see that you are going in the right direction.

A motor vehicle is not an investment. So what does Return On Investment have to do with owning and operating one?

[deathtrain]

So your saying that someone that buys/trades a car from what they where driving is not an investment?

[Daox]

You could do this manually with the garage entry. For instance below is mine for the Paseo. You could simply put a price after each mod and a total at the end so you know what you've spent. Then, on the fuel log page, you can see what you've saved vs EPA. Now its not a direct compairison since driving techniques are free, but its a good start.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by deathtrain

So your saying that someone that buys/trades a car from what they where driving is not an investment?

Motor vehicles are not an investment. They depreciate rapidly and there is no capital appreciation. In other words, there is no way of making a profit as you will never recoup what you paid for the vehicle, nor receive any return on what you 'invested'.

For a better understanding of what an investment is click here.

[Daox]

While thats true of probably 99%+ of vehicles purchased you can buy a fixer upper and resell it for more than you've paid and drive it in the mean time. A coworker of mine does it routinely and I've done it as well.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by Daox

While thats true of probably 99%+ of vehicles purchased you can buy a fixer upper and resell it for more than you've paid and drive it in the mean time. A coworker of mine does it routinely and I've done it as well.

So have I. However, you need to factor in all the money you put into it to repair it, plus the value of your labor (sweat equity), besides which it continues to depreciate (lose value) as you own it. Usually the only time you can break even or show the slightest profit is when it's a beater, it's totally depreciated, and you paid almost nothing for it.

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

So have I. However, you need to factor in all the money you put into it to repair it, plus the value of your labor (sweat equity), besides which it continues to depreciate (lose value) as you own it. Usually the only time you can break even or show the slightest profit is when it's a beater, it's totally depreciated, and you paid almost nothing for it.

If we want to figure out the money, effort (in $$), depreciation, etc. that it costs to get the car ready vs what we get out of the car is greater than 1 (indicating positive return) or less than 1 (indicating negative return), what would you call it? Not "ROI"? Is there a different well understood term that conveys the same meaning?

I understand that a person shouldn't expect the value of a vehicle to go up, but it is still a tangible asset and is still providing some kind of return. Just like any investment, the ROI can be positive or negative. For a vehicle, it may not be in simple $$ terms, but in most cases it can be distilled down so it can be calculated in $$ terms. For instance if you have to go somewhere regularly (e.g. commuting), you can calculate the value of your time which you save vs walking or cycling (calculation depends the value you place on your time, of course). Obviously even a cheap car can do the job, but if it's not reliable then you have to add the cost of fixing in there as well... which might highlight that a newer or more expensive, more reliable car is a better way to spend your money.

I'm not going to say that the ROI (or whatever you want to call it) on a vehicle is going to come out positive, only that the same concept can be used to figure out how much (or little) it is costing vs alternatives.

The same goes for FE modifications... Some $$, effort, reduction in resale value (maybe) is being put in with the expectation of some reduction in fuel consumption... the first part is the investment which includes tangible assets (which will depreciate very quickly in this case) while the second is the return in the form of improved efficiency.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

If we want to figure out the money, effort (in $$), depreciation, etc. that it costs to get the car ready vs what we get out of the car is greater than 1 (indicating positive return) or less than 1 (indicating negative return), what would you call it? Not "ROI"? Is there a different well understood term that conveys the same meaning?

I understand that a person shouldn't expect the value of a vehicle to go up, but it is still a tangible asset and is still providing some kind of return. Just like any investment, the ROI can be positive or negative. For a vehicle, it may not be in simple $$ terms, but in most cases it can be distilled down so it can be calculated in $$ terms. For instance if you have to go somewhere regularly (e.g. commuting), you can calculate the value of your time which you save vs walking or cycling (calculation depends the value you place on your time, of course). Obviously even a cheap car can do the job, but if it's not reliable then you have to add the cost of fixing in there as well... which might highlight that a newer or more expensive, more reliable car is a better way to spend your money.

I'm not going to say that the ROI (or whatever you want to call it) on a vehicle is going to come out positive, only that the same concept can be used to figure out how much (or little) it is costing vs alternatives.

The same goes for FE modifications... Some $$, effort, reduction in resale value (maybe) is being put in with the expectation of some reduction in fuel consumption... the first part is the investment which includes tangible assets (which will depreciate very quickly in this case) while the second is the return in the form of improved efficiency.

Here the term (ROI) is being used very broadly by the OP, outside the use of the term in the conventional way.

You (and the OP) are using the term broadly as to include any activity or perceived asset. One could say "I am invested in my _____". In marriage, your investment would be your spouse. Or your "investment" might be in the future of your children. If you are patriotic, you might consider your investment to be taking an interest in your country. Et cetera. However these are not financial investments. The term ROI specifically refers to financial investments, not to all these other perceived values or interests.

Strictly speaking, one enters into any investment expecting to make a financial profit (AKA a 'return'). Otherwise it is not an investment. If the term is used so very broadly as to call vehicle ownership a financial investment, it is a very poor financial investment indeed, since the financial return will be a negative one or a loss. Unless you are a used car turnaround specialist it is difficult or impossible for the average vehicle owner to profit financially from ownership of a motor vehicle.

Actually what you are referring to is the cost of ownership and whatever perceived benefit might be derived from it. But that's apart from the conventional usage of the phrase 'ROI'...

In effect the title of the thread acknowledges this, for "money spent" is not money invested.