Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Forum News & Feedback
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2012, 12:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: houston
Posts: 374

Black Knight - '94 Toyota Corolla
Team Toyota
90 day: 58.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 38 Times in 33 Posts
Money spent

I know we are trying to spend less and less on our gas used to climb that MPG hill to stick it to the man with the smile. Is there anyway to add Money Spent into the persons car log. This section would be like gas log but with money spent. This way each person can track what he/she has spent and when. ( i.e. vehicle cost and cost of mods) Then in the Efficiency log the total can go there and can be added into the formula. At that point the member can find out where the break even point is for that car.

I think if a person can visually start seeing any type of ROI then it will motivate them to keep going. Even if they feel their MPG's are not moving fast enough as long as you see the ROI then you can see that you are going in the right direction.

Just an idea.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-03-2012, 01:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
...the $-spent to achieve $-saved in MPG, ie:

ROI = $-saved / $-spent
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 10:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 865
Thanks: 29
Thanked 111 Times in 83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathtrain View Post
I know we are trying to spend less and less on our gas used to climb that MPG hill to stick it to the man with the smile.
Who is "the man with the smile"? And who is it that you want to "stick it to"?

Quote:
I think if a person can visually start seeing any type of ROI then it will motivate them to keep going. Even if they feel their MPG's are not moving fast enough as long as you see the ROI then you can see that you are going in the right direction.
A motor vehicle is not an investment. So what does Return On Investment have to do with owning and operating one?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 11:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: houston
Posts: 374

Black Knight - '94 Toyota Corolla
Team Toyota
90 day: 58.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 38 Times in 33 Posts
So your saying that someone that buys/trades a car from what they where driving is not an investment?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 08:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
You could do this manually with the garage entry. For instance below is mine for the Paseo. You could simply put a price after each mod and a total at the end so you know what you've spent. Then, on the fuel log page, you can see what you've saved vs EPA. Now its not a direct compairison since driving techniques are free, but its a good start.





Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	paseo.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	95.4 KB
ID:	10415   Click image for larger version

Name:	paseo2.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	55.1 KB
ID:	10416  
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 09:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 865
Thanks: 29
Thanked 111 Times in 83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathtrain View Post
So your saying that someone that buys/trades a car from what they where driving is not an investment?
Motor vehicles are not an investment. They depreciate rapidly and there is no capital appreciation. In other words, there is no way of making a profit as you will never recoup what you paid for the vehicle, nor receive any return on what you 'invested'.

For a better understanding of what an investment is click here.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 09:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
While thats true of probably 99%+ of vehicles purchased you can buy a fixer upper and resell it for more than you've paid and drive it in the mean time. A coworker of mine does it routinely and I've done it as well.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 05:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 865
Thanks: 29
Thanked 111 Times in 83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
While thats true of probably 99%+ of vehicles purchased you can buy a fixer upper and resell it for more than you've paid and drive it in the mean time. A coworker of mine does it routinely and I've done it as well.
So have I. However, you need to factor in all the money you put into it to repair it, plus the value of your labor (sweat equity), besides which it continues to depreciate (lose value) as you own it. Usually the only time you can break even or show the slightest profit is when it's a beater, it's totally depreciated, and you paid almost nothing for it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 09:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,594

RippinRoo - '05 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5 GT
Subaru
90 day: 21.16 mpg (US)

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
Diesel
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

Olga - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon
90 day: 46.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 303
Thanked 311 Times in 186 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thymeclock View Post
So have I. However, you need to factor in all the money you put into it to repair it, plus the value of your labor (sweat equity), besides which it continues to depreciate (lose value) as you own it. Usually the only time you can break even or show the slightest profit is when it's a beater, it's totally depreciated, and you paid almost nothing for it.
If we want to figure out the money, effort (in $$), depreciation, etc. that it costs to get the car ready vs what we get out of the car is greater than 1 (indicating positive return) or less than 1 (indicating negative return), what would you call it? Not "ROI"? Is there a different well understood term that conveys the same meaning?

I understand that a person shouldn't expect the value of a vehicle to go up, but it is still a tangible asset and is still providing some kind of return. Just like any investment, the ROI can be positive or negative. For a vehicle, it may not be in simple $$ terms, but in most cases it can be distilled down so it can be calculated in $$ terms. For instance if you have to go somewhere regularly (e.g. commuting), you can calculate the value of your time which you save vs walking or cycling (calculation depends the value you place on your time, of course). Obviously even a cheap car can do the job, but if it's not reliable then you have to add the cost of fixing in there as well... which might highlight that a newer or more expensive, more reliable car is a better way to spend your money.

I'm not going to say that the ROI (or whatever you want to call it) on a vehicle is going to come out positive, only that the same concept can be used to figure out how much (or little) it is costing vs alternatives.

The same goes for FE modifications... Some $$, effort, reduction in resale value (maybe) is being put in with the expectation of some reduction in fuel consumption... the first part is the investment which includes tangible assets (which will depreciate very quickly in this case) while the second is the return in the form of improved efficiency.

Last edited by NachtRitter; 03-05-2012 at 09:48 PM.. Reason: added more
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 865
Thanks: 29
Thanked 111 Times in 83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NachtRitter View Post
If we want to figure out the money, effort (in $$), depreciation, etc. that it costs to get the car ready vs what we get out of the car is greater than 1 (indicating positive return) or less than 1 (indicating negative return), what would you call it? Not "ROI"? Is there a different well understood term that conveys the same meaning?

I understand that a person shouldn't expect the value of a vehicle to go up, but it is still a tangible asset and is still providing some kind of return. Just like any investment, the ROI can be positive or negative. For a vehicle, it may not be in simple $$ terms, but in most cases it can be distilled down so it can be calculated in $$ terms. For instance if you have to go somewhere regularly (e.g. commuting), you can calculate the value of your time which you save vs walking or cycling (calculation depends the value you place on your time, of course). Obviously even a cheap car can do the job, but if it's not reliable then you have to add the cost of fixing in there as well... which might highlight that a newer or more expensive, more reliable car is a better way to spend your money.

I'm not going to say that the ROI (or whatever you want to call it) on a vehicle is going to come out positive, only that the same concept can be used to figure out how much (or little) it is costing vs alternatives.

The same goes for FE modifications... Some $$, effort, reduction in resale value (maybe) is being put in with the expectation of some reduction in fuel consumption... the first part is the investment which includes tangible assets (which will depreciate very quickly in this case) while the second is the return in the form of improved efficiency.
Here the term (ROI) is being used very broadly by the OP, outside the use of the term in the conventional way.

You (and the OP) are using the term broadly as to include any activity or perceived asset. One could say "I am invested in my _____". In marriage, your investment would be your spouse. Or your "investment" might be in the future of your children. If you are patriotic, you might consider your investment to be taking an interest in your country. Et cetera. However these are not financial investments. The term ROI specifically refers to financial investments, not to all these other perceived values or interests.

Strictly speaking, one enters into any investment expecting to make a financial profit (AKA a 'return'). Otherwise it is not an investment. If the term is used so very broadly as to call vehicle ownership a financial investment, it is a very poor financial investment indeed, since the financial return will be a negative one or a loss. Unless you are a used car turnaround specialist it is difficult or impossible for the average vehicle owner to profit financially from ownership of a motor vehicle.

Actually what you are referring to is the cost of ownership and whatever perceived benefit might be derived from it. But that's apart from the conventional usage of the phrase 'ROI'...

In effect the title of the thread acknowledges this, for "money spent" is not money invested.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com