Narrowing down the list of great ecomodding older vehicles

[speedmpgchaser]

SEE MY SUMMARY POST BELOW

Been looking for a while on here, plenty more reading still to do. Previous list of great cars for ecomodding have been a big help. The thread I found the most helpful was in 2013.

Reviewing that list in 2023/24 based on price, availability, average condition & known flaws. Living in the rust belt also makes things harder.

This started because I've gotten progressively more agitated not having a manual the last few months. Not easy to find what I'm driving (2nd gen focus) in that config. With a 2l engine, I assume the ceiling is lower than I would like. I'm sure the right habits would more than compensate for this, just looking forna higher floor. There's a certain amount of slowness I expect a car in this category to have- far be this from a sports car, but it's definitely got more than I need, a majority of the time.

Goal: Vehicle getting 45-50 on highway, 38-40 in the city, when employing basic eco driving techniques.

Going off a 3k budget. Options open up a lot more at 5k, but I'm driving under 20k miles/yr. Outside of a G1 insight regularly pushing 75+mpg (100+ w/extreme hypermilling), adding so much more upfront cost brings a long breakeven period, which I don't want to wait out (by paying upfront).

Also, with a lot of these vehicles, spending more gets you a nicer example of the same vehicle, but you can get an uglier one in need of maintenance for a far lower cost (which is still much lower, after the repairs have been made).

Caveat- I do a lot of deliveries with my personal vehicle, so at times, hypermilling within the deadlines and 80mph I have to do on the freeway is next to impossible. Other days, I go 55 and am constantly employing coasting, optimize city speeds based on my scanguage, timing traffic lights, etc. Plenty of room to improve habits and skills, still.

[speedmpgchaser]

Would appreciate feedback on this list I have tweaked some.
The used car market is not quite as crazy as it was during covid but prices are still kinda inconsistent for what's offered.

Less likely
G1 Honda Insight, manual- tough to locate with a good IMA at a price competitive to the rest of these, high miles as the norm being a slight negative also to me.
92-95 Honda civic VX, 96-98 Honda HX-l, CRX HF- only ratty examples within a few hundred miles of me, consistently.. most have a cyl head swap for more power, that I assume quite hurts the mpg of the vehicle.
Festiva- I either find well-preserved examples for the price of a newer vehicle, or rusted apart projects, so far. Can these go fast in a pinch?
Geo Metro- drove an auto for a month, really need a manual if you do a lot of freeway. 75 in this one day (at 4400 rpms), was.. yikes! 😂 Also mostly rotted out around here.
VW TDI- price and diesel cost knock most of these options out.

More likely:
Saturn SL1 and Saturn SC1- most I find aren't manual, and they burn so much oil it hurts the fuel savings.
SOME do not and still watching out for that- Are they capable of almost bumping 50mpg on the freeway, with speeds under 65? SC has how much aero benefit? Significant, I would think..

Favorite:
Toyota Tercel, Paseo, Echo- I'm finding these are less often performance swapped than the Honda crowd, but not a lot easier to find consistently. Which manual trans, which generation etc I am still trying to narrow down.

Toyota Corolla- 8th gen has oil burning issues, but the 4 spd auto I had a few years ago only used 1/2 qt between 3k changes at 130k. These have a 1.8l motor (too big?), 40 on the highway but are they capable of 50 if you slow down, improve your habits and have a 5 spd. I'm looking at the echo, Paseo etc as a smaller and more mpg friendly version of this.

Corolla 9th gen manual I'd get in a heartbeat for the right price, but would have quite a few miles at my budget number.

[freebeard]

Geo Metro- drove an auto for a month, really need a manual if you do a lot of freeway. 75 in this one day (at 4400 rpms), was.. yikes! �� Also mostly rotted out around here.

I know what you mean, after driving 40-year-old cars like forever, I went with a 1990 Metro. First Canadian car for me, first Chevrolet.

Thousand dollar car, two hundred in tires. With cold tires on an average roadbed, 60MPH is uncomfortable, after 30 miles or so on smooth pavement, 75 is possible.

OTOH, my 1979 Dasher diesel was happiest at 85MPH. Bought for $1750, sold for $1500. If I had it to do over again I think I'd drop a 'dieselgate' engine with a balance shaft in it.



It was rated at 48HP/45MPG, same as the XFI 3-cylinder 5-speed.

edit: Incidentally both the Dasher and the Metro were mechanic's loaners I bought as they retired.

[speedmpgchaser]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Thousand dollar car, two hundred in tires. With cold tires on an average roadbed, 60MPH is uncomfortable, after 30 miles or so on smooth pavement, 75 is possible.

edit: Incidentally both the Dasher and the Metro were mechanic's loaners I bought as they retired.

No surprise those were the loaners, both quite reliable
I made it 10 hours on the east coast highways with a fuel stop, though I definitely had sore buns the next day haha. That's a rough intro to Chevy for you
Dasher would be a fun one to find now, impressive it liked that highway speed

Possible I put too much in the o.p for anyone to digest right away.. really debating what the mpg ceiling of the Saturn's are (sl1, sc1) with a manual (if I can find one not guzzling oil), if the Paseo, Echo etc are as good as they look on paper (my favorite option if found a good manual near me).
Also if those Hondas with a swapped head retain their factory efficiency. May edit o.p. tmw if no one else gets through it.

[speedmpgchaser]

Think my o.p. asked too many questions, & unclearly.. also, should this be moved to ecomodding central? Read some relevant older threads there yesterday.

-90s honda hybrids- I assume a full si swap, head swap, different engine (i.e. b18, d20, etc no lean burn) nullifies the hybrid specific value of these? Vx seems to have a higher mpg ceiling, hx is obd2 and maybe a little less uncommon.

-If you had your choice, Echo/Paseo, or Civic VX/HX? Finding either is a struggle, even before excluding the auto's.. but which seem to have the most attainable mpg floor?

-Saturn SC vs Saturn SL1- the aero benefit for both seems to mostly be grill and bumper blockoff mods, not bodystyle differences? Wondering if the larger displacement contributes to it having a highway driving ceiling mostly under 50mpg..

-Corolla, 7-8th gen, manual vs the Saturn- similar engine sizes, more output from the toyota.. price aside (more miles on the toyota for the price most likely), how much of an FE step down are these both from the honda/toyota options above?

[freebeard]

I just don't see 90s and later as older vehicles.


https://uncrate.com/p/2020/04/citroen-2cv-hot-rod-1.jpg

[Isaac Zachary]

MK I or MK II (non-TDI) VW Diesel hands down! I could get 60mph highway. Hypermiling (shift soon and keep it floored) really helped get better fuel mileage. The non-turbo editions didn't have hardly any power, but are dead simple, hardly every die (as long as you don't wait too long to change the timing chane) and cheap and easy to work on.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I just don't see 90s and later as older vehicles.

Odd enough, some cars which were sort of "revolutionary" in Brazil in the '90s such as the Opel Corsa B, rebadged locally as a Chevrolet, now have a similar "regular old car" status like a Beetle had when I was born. And I still remember when the Corsa was released here...

[freebeard]

A quick search finds:

Originally Posted by DDG

https://www.lallisandhiggins.com › lallis-and-higgins-blog › the-difference-between-classic-antique-and-vintage-cars
The Difference Between Classic, Antique, and Vintage Cars?
Aug 1, 2022 We have listed all three and their generally agreed-upon ages below: A vintage car is one that was manufactured between 1919 and 1930. An antique car is any car manufactured in 1975 or earlier (older than 45 years old). The classic car is a vehicle manufactured in the 1990s or earlier (at least 20 years old)

[JSH]

From your list - I would look for an Echo. Rock solid and unloved car - which means lower prices than a Civic or Corolla.

I would add a 1st gen Honda Fit to your list. You do deliveries as it has more cargo room than an Echo, Civic or Corolla.