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Old 09-01-2018, 01:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Times change, and the picture is old. I once paid $450 for a 1954 23-window barn-door bus!
https://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1971...k-Wagon/Values
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Original MSRP $2,599
Low $10,800
Average $20,200
High $33,200
Like you say all trunk. I carried my (apt.-sized) refrigerator in mine. I had a notchback before the squareback, and the notch was neat (fold-down armrest in back) but it would be hard to go back.

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Old 09-01-2018, 03:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input, guys.

Have any of you test-driven the Hyundai Ioniq? They are boasting some impressive numbers, but alas no MT, which kinda sucks. Yes, Iím a retro-grouch who likes to select his own gears.

What about the Civic Hybrid? Viable choice?

Mini Cooper? My buddy has one of the new 3-cylinder turbo models, as well as the older N/A version and gets fantastic numbers on his 50-mile-each-way commute. Plus the fun-to-drive-factor is quite high. Parts are expensive (BMW), dealerships are few and far between, and I wouldnít think the reliability is as good as your standard Honda product. Correct me if Iím wrong.

As you can tell, my budget is somewhat nebulous. Iíve never made a car payment, and donít really want to start now, but itís not off the table.

Will the Fit get into the 40-MPGs on the freeway? Or is that an anomaly? The quick bit of research I did jut now shows most folks are seeing mid-30 mpgs over the course of regular driving. I do drive conservatively, but the Fit seems a bit tall, compared to my CRX/Civic, to get good numbers.

How about the newer Mazda 3 hatch with Skyactive Technology? I would settle for high-30 mpgs for a vehicle that large. My wife drives a 2004 2.3-liter, but it burns copious amount of oil and gets pretty dismal mileage. I thought that Mazda rated the new 3 5-door at 38 mpg, but am curious about real-world numbers.

What is an HCH1? Civic Hybrid? 1st gen?

Again, THANKS!! I know Iím likely missing some obvious choices, which is why Iím here.
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Old 09-01-2018, 04:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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HCH1 is first gen civic hybrid... against the crowd id also recommend a Saturn Ion or Chevy Cobalt, with the 2.2 liter and manual trans... with light mods and conservative driving I quickly broke into the low forties and with slightly more mods and diligent hypermiling, I’m getting right at 50mpg... they can also be bought ridiculously cheap(the Saturn is so cheap because it’s an orphaned car)...
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Old 09-01-2018, 06:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Biscuits View Post
How about the newer Mazda 3 hatch with Skyactive Technology? I would settle for high-30 mpgs for a vehicle that large. My wife drives a 2004 2.3-liter, but it burns copious amount of oil and gets pretty dismal mileage. I thought that Mazda rated the new 3 5-door at 38 mpg, but am curious about real-world numbers.
Mazda Skyactive engines will easily do better than rated


I've had my short-geared MX-5 @ 5,4L/100 km (43.5 mpg) while it's rated for 6L/100 km (39 mpg) without even trying.

That's the 1.5L though, which you don't get in the US
And we don't get the 2L in the 3 series ...
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Old 09-01-2018, 10:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Will the Fit get into the 40-MPGs on the freeway? Or is that an anomaly?
When/where is your commute? If you're in thick traffic on I-5 every day, aerodynamic efficiency won't matter as much, even at higher speeds--you'll spend most of your time riding in the wake of other vehicles (I've gotten some of my best highway MPG on the Dan Ryan in Chicago because of this effect). If you're commuting in from Buckley on 410 and 167, aero will be more of a consideration.

If you want a MT hybrid, Honda is your only choice.

As far as turbo cars, keep in mind they don't usually play well with EOC if you like to do that.
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Old 09-01-2018, 10:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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My drive is from West Seattle to Woodinville, but since I start work at 5:30 AM, the morning commute is a cakewalk. The afternoon commute is a different story. I just started this job, and this week traffic was quite light with the impending holiday weekend. Next week will be the true test. My wife commutes to Kirkland, but leaves a bit later. Iím getting most of my commute data from her experiences.

Iíve been searching for a Gen2 CRX HF and/or an earlier HX, but they are both rare around here, and most of the CRXes that pop up are pretty thrashed or modded.

I donít really want a hybrid; lots of stuff to go wrong and heavier than a standard car. If I could find a nice HX with relatively low miles and a big stack of maintenance records, Iíd be styliní...😎
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Old 09-01-2018, 10:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Part of why the Insight and HCH1 are so popular in here is that when the IMA pack eventually does fail(no battery will last forever), the manual trans versions of these hybrids will still drive, unlike in a Prius, where if the traction battery dies the car becomes useless...

However I can relate to the not wanting more stuff to break/fail, which led me to my current car... crank windows, no ABS, no cruise, not much other than the bare basic equipment...
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Old 09-01-2018, 10:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I have an '03 HCH1 and can say that even with my younger son driving, not trying to hypermile at all, it delivers mid-40s with the air on, on a daily commute, with the IMA light on. It doesn't accelerate like he would like, but it gets down the road and delivers pretty good fuel economy numbers. Get the manual and drive it forever; mine is past 200,000 miles and climbing.

I've tried to school him in the ways of hypermiling, but it just isn't sticking. He pretty much cooked the IMA battery trying to keep the revs low until I told him that even the LDA engine in the HCH is nearly as rev-happy as any other Honda engine. Hold the gears longer and let the engine wind out. It'll be fine. Too late for our battery however, I think it may be beyond saving now.

But even with the IMA not really helping, he's getting around 43-45mpg on his daily commute. You could do a lot, lot worse. And on long trips the car will break into the mid-50s, no problem.
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hmmm.... So, how do I judge the condition of the IMA when examining a prospective vehicle for purchase? How expensive to replace batteries?

As for lackluster acceleration, Iím driving a 58-hp CRX. Granted, it only weighs 1750 lbs...🤔
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Old 09-02-2018, 01:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The only way to judge condition is to pull and translate codes if it's showing an IMA light, assume it's more or less okay if it isn't, or take the IMA pack apart and test the sticks individually.

I think if you find an HCH1 that isn't showing the IMA light, then it's on a replacement pack or the owner is actively managing the system. The Honda BMS isn't as conservative as the Toyota, and the internal sub-packs of batteries ("sticks") in the IMA pack can fall out of calibration with each other, and the BMS has to re-equalize them. As the pack gets older this happens more often and eventually they can't equalize. That's when you get the code.

If it's an HCH1 on its original pack with no IMA light showing then the owner is almost certainly actively managing the pack and babying it along. That's actually a little reassuring, it suggests the owner recognizes the value of keeping older equipment running, and the maintenance in other areas is probably up to date.

New packs with greater capacity are available for around $2000 from Bumblebee. If you find someone dumping an HCH1 with a cooked IMA pack but in otherwise good condition for cheap, that could be a decent option.

You mentioned weight. Your HF sets the bar there,,that's impossible to beat with new cars. But my HCH1 weighs about 2660 pounds. Nearly a ton more than your HF but about 300lbs lighter than my Prius, and lots lighter than most other cars on the road.

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Last edited by elhigh; 09-02-2018 at 01:58 AM..
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