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Old 11-28-2010, 12:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Though I've never understood why most people seem to think of the plug-in hybrid as having/wanting to run on battery only until that's depleted, then running on IC engine alone. Seems to me that on anything more than a short trip, you would get better results using both together.
I think a lot of people are hooked on the idea of never having to buy gas again. However, I think the first time they get a $400 electric bill they just might have second thoughts. Energy costs in any form and while we're running out of oil faster than we're running out of the coal and natural gas that powers our electrical grid, the goal should remain focused on efficiency. Hybrids offer an opportunity that gas engines just can't, by storing the energy of braking and coasting, but a Yukon Hybrid, even if it were a plug-in, is just going to use more energy to get it down the road than a Yaris that burns gas.

At some point the weight of the battery is going to cost you more energy to carry around than it's worth and I'm sure every manufacturer is playing with that size and watching the market's response to their competitors. Expect every Volt to sell off the showroom floors in a hurry, but only the sales the next year will determine if other manufacturers make adjustments to their product line ups.

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Old 11-28-2010, 01:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old Tele man -

It's going to be interesting seeing the real-world MPGe for people that have big versus small commutes. My long commute would split me right down the middle where I would need the ICE on the way home, so I would be at about 65 MPG.

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Old 11-28-2010, 02:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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...CarloSW2 -- "Yes," real-world information would answer lots of questions, and I'd prefer such info came from real-owners and not from GM-marketing "Hypesters" who apparently can't tell the difference between reality and honesty.

...hm-m-m, which is worse? Political "spin" or Automotive-marketing "spin"?
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I can't believe they only pull 35mpg city in charge sustaining mode. Even a Fusion hybrid can pull 41mpg city and that's a full size car. Was engineering a smaller two-mode hybrid system or licensing some of Toyota's stuff really that hard?
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endurance View Post
I think a lot of people are hooked on the idea of never having to buy gas again.
Yeah, but they're not driving in reality mode :-) In addition to the range/battery weight issues, there's the problem of current draw: a battery that does fine in the flatlands because you never accelerate at max throttle for more than a few seconds is going to fail miserably when you e.g. try to climb several thousand vertical ft at 6-7% grade, because even if it has the energy capacity, it's not going to be able to sustain the discharge rate.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The numbers on the EPA label seem to not be reality based. For instance they base the electric cost on 11 cents per Kilowatt hour. See this info on this link Electric Power Monthly - Average Retail Price of Electricity to Ultimate Customers by End-Use Sector, by State, and you will see that very few states are below the 11 cent cost per Kilowatt hour cost! This means all of the cost calculations on this label are questionable at best. Thanks to the Government Motors lobby I bet for the twilight zone sticker.

Also many residential customers will get sticker shock when charging the EV puts them into a higher bracket for KWH charges. I recently attended an Energy Management course for businesses. There is a charge for business customers called Peak Demand charge. This charge is carried through for a period of time, sometimes an entire year based on the peak electrical use for a 15 minute period. So if you plug in your car to a business and it happens to be a 100 degree day, with the Air conditioners using max power, the business will pay more all year!

This peak demand charge will sour most businesses allowing folks to recharge EV's at work. I spoke with one business property manager who said he would turn off the circuit breakers for the charging stations in his parking garage. Imagine driving to work, and not being able to recharge for the trip home?

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Old 11-28-2010, 09:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Actually, the EPA used $0.12/kWh on the Leaf's rating, and $0.11/kWh on the Volt. I'm not sure if these would be figured for the place that they are selling it?
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i want to add that the 2004 honda civic EPA label low-balled the MPG.
i often drove at 53 MPG.
i hope the Volt's EPA label also underestimates.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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383 wh/mi and 37 mpg... Not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed using either power source.
This just illustrates that when you try to do everything you end up doing nothing really well.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Actually, the EPA used $0.12/kWh on the Leaf's rating, and $0.11/kWh on the Volt. I'm not sure if these would be figured for the place that they are selling it?
I missed that. Seems like the only fair thing to do would be to use the national average of $0.12kWh. Certainly the same rate should be used for the cost for all electrics.

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