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Old 09-23-2019, 10:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by Thorium-Synfuel View Post
The difference between the stock Fiat Panda and the "500L", which goes the other way in mass, is indicative of substantial fuel savings by trimming about 200 kg. From some 1250 kg in the 500L model to 1000 kg in the Fiat Panda. So with the Metro at the featherweight 750 kg. What do you think it could achieve on the highway?
Besides weight reduction, aerodynamics also play a relevant role on that matter.


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I haven't come across any "0.9 twin air natural power" engines, here in Ireland. Don't know if it even sold.
AFAIK in Ireland LPG is more usual as a motor fuel than CNG.

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Old 09-30-2019, 02:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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True on both counts, I actually haven't seen CNG cars here apart from in the roll-out program commencing in Dublin, that is primarily advertised on Taxi-wagons. The Rest of the Island has LPG in the usual, about 2% of fuel stations. CNG filling is Dublin specific at present. Might be one in Belfast, not sure.

Though on the power-train swap, out from the bi-fuel '0.9 natural power' and into the Geo-metro/suzuki cultus. It seems to make the most sense for fuel savings and the environment, doing CNG driving, if or when the CNG injection into the grid becomes 'renewable'/carbon neutral.

The main snag at the moment, is finding a breaker yard with a Fiat Panda/Alfa Mito/Ypsilon equipped with this very specific 'echochic' ''0.9 L natural power'' engine.

The ''0.9L turbo Fiat 500'' is available in Ireland but it isn't the specific bi-fuel 'natural power' and it isn't in a breakers-yard, as of yet

I might just have to enquire from the 0.9L flat twin guys on the forum? if the same engine, once the turbo is removed, also runs on CNG and what is the necessary lay-out, on swapping over and then importing CNG tanks and lines and such.

As a gripe, it seems to be a common trend in Ireland, with fuel efficient cars, neither the Geo Metro XFi, the CRX HF nor these '0.9L natural power' equipped cars may ever have been offered for sale. It's kind of annoying. Not even the Honda Civic GX(CNG), Or first generation, Honda Insight were ever sold here, it's kind of crazy.


On the aerodynamic front you bring up, from what I've found online.

The Cd of the stock suzuki cultus/geo-metro is 0.32, while drag is dependent on many things, the frontal Area x the Cd is a good metric of comparison. So together the CdA is in the mid sixes(~6.79) according to the below chart.

The Cd of the Panda, from what little I could find is a similar 0.32. Data on the CdA or anything indicative of the actual drag than just a listed coefficient of 0.32, has proven more elusive to determine than expected. Anyone here have any idea?

As an end note, something that many here might relate to is, do we all share the picture of an ideal mass produced car, as taking the shape of something like a Honda CRX HF in style with that inherent low, in the fives(5.57) CdA, paired with a new engine, a low displacement CNG engine, to go about achieving close to the best of both worlds : low weight, the best CdA around in this list below and... combined with a most efficient bi-fuel gas engine. Tasty.

Essentially, it could be thought of as though a Honda GX and Honda CRX HF got together and had a descendent, with the 1.7 L CNG engine of the 'GX' onboard, as the powerblock, replaced with these modern 0.9L engines, sitting whispering under in the engine bay instead.

Why that car isn't for sale is lamentable, manufacturers really should get on it, as this arms-race obsession with crash testing, resulting in beefier and beefier SUV/MPVs be damned, we should boycott new cars, until the roomy, sporty Honda CRX sized cars, come back. I mean, why did cars get so tall, its a mass roll-over event waiting to happen?).


https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Vehicle_C...t_of_Drag_List

Anyway, here are some engine bay videos of the 0.9L flat twin engine, albeit showing the unfortunately ubiquitous 0.9L-turbo-model, it overall depicts the engine to have the suitable kind of dimensions to fit into a Geo-metro(or CRX HF), pretty easily, what do you think?

Also one of the reasons I'm leaning more toward CNG and not electric, is well Ireland has for the foreseeable future, a 80% CCGT(combined cycle gas turbine) powered electric grid, so the CO2 and not to mention financial cost of charging an EV car, is about three times the price to charge as say, in the US, then you factor in that the grid is CNG anyway, for the only thing the environment cares about, the 'well-to-wheel' efficiency. A CNG car would beat an EV hands down.

Last edited by Thorium-Synfuel; 09-30-2019 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorium-Synfuel View Post
Though on the power-train swap, out from the bi-fuel '0.9 natural power' and into the Geo-metro/suzuki cultus. It seems to make the most sense for fuel savings and the environment, doing CNG driving, if or when the CNG injection into the grid becomes 'renewable'/carbon neutral.
Biomethane makes a lot of sense, as it's possible to be produced with agricultural residues, sewage and domestic waste. Might become more important regarding the biological stability of carbon and nitrogen cycles than running a fleet of EVs.


Quote:
I might just have to enquire from the 0.9L flat twin guys on the forum? if the same engine, once the turbo is removed, also runs on CNG and what is the necessary lay-out, on swapping over and then importing CNG tanks and lines and such.
That's a parallel-twin, not a flat-twin. But anyway, either with natural aspiration or forced induction, converting a port-injection engine to CNG is not rocket-science.


Quote:
Anyway, here are some engine bay videos of the 0.9L flat twin engine, albeit showing the unfortunately ubiquitous 0.9L-turbo-model, it overall depicts the engine to have the suitable kind of dimensions to fit into a Geo-metro(or CRX HF), pretty easily, what do you think?
Not so sure how easy it would fit, but it does seem suitable.

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