Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > DIY / How-to
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-10-2019, 06:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Éire
Posts: 5

Black box - '94 Suzuki Cultus
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
New Project Suzuki Cultus "geo metro"

Hey ecomodders,

I have a 1994 Suzuki Cultus/"geo metro", with 113,000 km on the clock and having read Darin's chronicles on the "firefly", got to thinking if there are a few mods worth considering straight up, that make more sense, in the years between Darin having penned them.

Firstly and while there is no rush as the 1L 3 cylinder engine is fine, with the now glut of 2 cylinder engines available in the market. I was wondering If anyone has looked at the atkinson cycle engines, or the bi-fuel "Fiat flatTwin Air", running on petrol or better yet CNG, as having enough torque for moving the econo-box?

Imagining what a lite-weight car could do with a new engine, got the rusty mental gears working, to send up a seek beacon, if anyone has thought about it here?

As the panda /Fiat gets 3.9L per 100 km on CNG. According to this site. Could we get 2.5 L when in the lighter Suzuki/geo metro...and with the alternator deleted? Sounds in the realm of possibilities right? Imagine the savings.

spritmonitor[DOT]de/en/overview/16-Fiat/136-Panda.html?fueltype=4

Secondly With the dropping price of high discharge rated lipo 18650 cells, namely the Sony VTC5, at 2 dollars a piece. A "4s" (4 in series) 16V/14.8V lipo battery pack. Doesn't look so expensive. With the small engine of the Suzuki Cultus, I wouldn't be surprised if just one or two packs would provide all that's needed. The "vaping community" have generated the nice benefit of making available battery cradles, that can handle very high amps. So as long as your destination has a power outlet. You can reload each cell into a large cell- phone, power bank, charge each cell up at 4V, then put each ond back into the cradles in the car...and away you go again.

I'd post up a pic of a proof of concept of the pack, that I threw together for an airsoft gun a few years ago.[though the forum doesn't permit pictures from mobile devices?] A gander at ebay for the "vaping 18650 battery cradles" and a 6 cell "power bank". Should return just how cheap this can be.

With a big enough supply of VTC5 cells, you can run the electrics in your car, keep your phone charged when on foot, energize your hi-power glove-box torch, or even keep your airsoft gun juiced up if you're like me. All wrapped up in one nice versatile setup.

The only thing, I'm curious about is if a dual pack, in parallel, would be sufficient to delete the alternator, to get us up and running. The VTC5 is used in cordless drills, so it can do a CCA "cold cranking amp" of 80A in a short pulse reportedly without issues. It's rated at 30A continuous(for those in vaping). Are these sufficient CCAs, to turn over, the tiny "geo metro" engine?

Naturally a quad pack, would be needed to really run head-lamps and peripherals in the car. That'd be $2 x 4(4) = $32 just for the 14.8V quad-pack, parallel-wired VTC5s. With a total capacity of (3000mAh)(4) = 12 Ah. Enough for most trips? Definitely, if your destination is work-to-home, both placez you can plug and charge your discreet "phone" power banks into.


Last edited by Thorium-Synfuel; 09-17-2019 at 11:58 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-11-2019, 02:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,548
Thanks: 3,297
Thanked 4,503 Times in 3,583 Posts
Quote:
I'd post up a pic of a proof of concept of the pack, that I threw together for an airsoft gun a few years ago.[though the forum doesn't permit pictures from mobile devices?]
The forum allows pix after the first five posts, so make a few here and there and it should work.

I guess your looking to do an alternator delete? I'd be more inclined to add a 20hp altermotor with serpentine belt and up-rate the battery pack to make it a mild hybrid.
__________________
.
Haiku are easy
But sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator

_________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 10:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 716
Thanks: 28
Thanked 164 Times in 140 Posts
Be very careful on the batteries, there's a lot of junk masquerading as quality. The battery guy I go to talks of all these wonder cells that actually test as used standards with fancy shrink wrap covers.
__________________
2000 F250 7.3 CC 20+ MPG @ 10000 #
2013 Golf tdi 47.5 mpg neutered, summer fuel
1988 Ranger EV Volt batts>> 17,000 MPG and climbing. Apart for rebuild.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2019, 12:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,216
Thanks: 0
Thanked 732 Times in 646 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorium-Synfuel View Post
Firstly and while there is no rush as the 1L 3 cylinder engine is fine, with the now glut of 2 cylinder engines available in the market. I was wondering If anyone has looked at the atkinson cycle engines, or the bi-fuel "Fiat flatTwin Air", running on petrol or better yet CNG, as having enough torque for moving the econo-box?
Honestly it does surprise me that Fiat is likely to phase the TwinAir out as soon as some naturally-aspirated port-injection versions of the GSE/FireFly eventually make their way into the European market.

But anyway, I have already lurked about trying some parallel-twin engine in the 500 to 1000cc range in a small car.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 10:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Éire
Posts: 5

Black box - '94 Suzuki Cultus
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Honestly it does surprise me that Fiat is likely to phase the TwinAir out as soon as some naturally-aspirated port-injection versions of the GSE/FireFly eventually make their way into the European market.

But anyway, I have already lurked about trying some parallel-twin engine in the 500 to 1000cc range in a small car.

What kind of assessment/'lurking' have you done on the concept of trying a parallel-twin swapped into the geo metro?

Or better yet, the 1980s CRX HF. Can you imagine the fuel efficiency savings?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 10:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Éire
Posts: 5

Black box - '94 Suzuki Cultus
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
Be very careful on the batteries, there's a lot of junk masquerading as quality. The battery guy I go to talks of all these wonder cells that actually test as used standards with fancy shrink wrap covers.
Too true, 'Mooch' who does a bunch of lipo battery testing and has seemingly created an independent website of detailed experimental results, for a galaxy of cells and manufacturers, generally points to ebay as a source of a lot of counterfeits.

However the Sony - VTC5A model, is hard to copy. Alongside the authentic weight and appearance that 'Mooch' makes available, more difficult attributes of the cell, unlike others, is that very high 80 Amp pulse discharge capability.

I have an airsoft 'gun' that I've modded to accept these cells specifically and while I haven't bought from ebay, if or when I do, I'll know straight away of the cells are a fake. As other lipo designs just don't have that high discharge capability, so I'll hear the motor struggling and the suspect 'VTC5A' battery, heating up on full auto. Due to other cells having higher internal resistance.

Not exactly 'scientific proof' of 100% authenticity but as they say 'proof in the pudding is in the eating of it'.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 11:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Éire
Posts: 5

Black box - '94 Suzuki Cultus
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
The forum allows pix after the first five posts, so make a few here and there and it should work.

I guess your looking to do an alternator delete? I'd be more inclined to add a 20hp altermotor with serpentine belt and up-rate the battery pack to make it a mild hybrid.

A mild hybrid would be a neat idea, especially as I do a lot of highway/motorway driving here in Ireland, that the 'Geo metro' isn't the most suited for, in fuel efficiency.

It's what got me thinking of doing a total engine swap, towards something more efficient in the sustained role, of keeping the vehicle at 120 Km/h in a prolonged highway travel. I haven't found any that fit the criteria. That on paper, point to definite large savings. An engine, at sub 50 horsepower(36 kW), or if one cannot be found, a kind of supplemental auxillary-power mini-IC engine mod, in which a small engine probably no more than ~5 horsepower, is added under the hood, just sufficent to keep the car moving at highway speeds?

Albeit finding the name of such an efficient motor. Do they exist? Is as much a roadblock as the thought you've put in my head, of a 20 horsepower EV altermotor, engaging intermittently, in a pulse-and-glide cycle, just to keep the car moving at the highway speeds, that the stock 50 hp engine has got the car up to and reached. Could that result in large savings?

This mild EV hybrid, would be something of the reverse of the usual arrangement, of the EV motor used for short distance travel and the IC engine only engaged, for long, once the battery-pack is depleted.

Though it might make more sense, to wonder about reversing the typical mild-hybrid arrangement,as in this particular commute situation, it's 90% highway and a 200 km round trip, morning and evening. With the driver doing as much pulse-and-glide as other drivers around, permit.

Having googled around there, I haven't found much online about the addition of a mild-hybrid to a geo metro.

While 'CoyoteX' added a proof-of-concept' 'mild hybrid' motor system for short distance travel here, in this thread, they interestingly dissuade anyone from following in their particular foot steps, as the chain-drive kept snapping...would there be a go-to 'mild hybrid' motor and transmission system, you could recommend?

geometroforum[dot]com/electric-motor-on-a-geo-metro-t36311-s10.html

Last edited by Thorium-Synfuel; 09-17-2019 at 11:55 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Thorium-Synfuel For This Useful Post:
freebeard (09-17-2019)
Old 09-17-2019, 01:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,548
Thanks: 3,297
Thanked 4,503 Times in 3,583 Posts
Thanks for asking.

Controller mods or build for E-assist altermotor

Quote:
At the LA Auto Show, on November 15, 2010, General Motors announced that it would be releasing an all-new version of the BAS system available in the 2012 Buick LaCrosse.[8] While still a Belted Alternator Starter system, the system is named eAssist and includes a larger more powerful Hitachi-supplied[citation needed] 115 Volt Lithium Ion battery and a 15 kW (20 hp) motor-generator that delivers 79 lb·ft (107 N·m) of torque.
The dimensions are similar to my Dasher's alternator, same diameter and an inch longer, plus that junction box on the end.

One advantage I see is regeneration. That saves the brakes.
__________________
.
Haiku are easy
But sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator

_________________
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,216
Thanks: 0
Thanked 732 Times in 646 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorium-Synfuel View Post
What kind of assessment/'lurking' have you done on the concept of trying a parallel-twin swapped into the geo metro?
Not specifically the Geo Metro. When I was 13, there was a Brazilian variant of the Opel Corsa B rebadged as a Chevrolet at home, with a 1.0L version of the Family 1 engine because GM didn't want to try the 3-cyl here. I didn't pay too much attention to the torque curves by then, so I assumed a Honda CB 500 engine would be up to the task. But anyway, nowadays if I were going to do a 2-cyl motorcycle engine swap maybe I'd consider the engine of a Triumph Bonneville, as it has a similar torque output to that old Corsa.


Quote:
Or better yet, the 1980s CRX HF. Can you imagine the fuel efficiency savings?
Honestly I wouldn't expect some outstanding fuel savings, since a considerably smaller engine would have to rev higher in order to reach the same speed, with a shorter differential ratio to compensate for the lower torque output. Some eventual fuel savings would be more related to weight savings, which would also not be so impressive.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com