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Old 11-15-2008, 03:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Big Dave: You are looking at it wrong. A cap and trade doesn't make energy cost more, it makes renewable energy cost (relatively) less. The alternatives are in place, they just need to become economically viable, and soon.

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Old 11-16-2008, 12:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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A tax does reduce demand by making consumers poorer overall. That has the same effect as high prices.

Politicians that raise taxes in a recession will roundly desrve to be thrown out of office.

You could make some case for taxes used to pay for new energy infrastructure, but the problem is that no matter what that infrastructure might be - nukes, wind farms, oil refineries, or whatever - some wackos will use legal delaying tactic to forestall new energy infrastructure from going into service. We may find the necessary permits taking more than a decade to clear, but the taxation would mindlessly go on. Therefore I am totally opposed to any increase in taxation of any type for any reason.

What alternatives are out there for oil? Nuclear and wind power will not run my truck.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
What alternatives are out there for oil? Nuclear and wind power will not run my truck.
Sure they can - there are plenty of Chevy S-10 electric conversions out there :-)

Higher prices might also get you to re-examine why you're driving a truck in the first place - and presumably a large one, since there haven't been any new small trucks built for a decade or more. Now maybe _you_ need the carrying capacity for work, but how about my neighbor's kid, who drives his jacked-up Dodge Ram to his job at Burger King? And as I've mentioned, I used to work construction, and managed to haul all my tools & materials in a '78 Datsun.

I agree that we don't need a tax increase, but I would like to see a tax shift. Now we mostly tax success: earn more, and pay more income tax; spend more, and pay more sales tax. I'd rather see a tax on waste: if you want to keep driving a guzzler, fine, but pay. Keep that landscape lighting on all night to show off your McMansion, and pay.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Duffman View Post
A tax curbs demand, the problem is your demand is multiples greater than your supply.

100% of the money generated by a tax stays in the country. Around 70% (off the top of my head) of the $$ spent on oil leaves the country.
Yes Sir! Them taxes on mobile phones sure have decreased demand for them little thangs.

With the price of crude around $60, what are the chances all the tax payers will get $500 from uncle sam? Nil! None!
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Politicians that raise taxes in a recession will roundly desrve to be thrown out of office.

What alternatives are out there for oil? Nuclear and wind power will not run my truck.
I donít know what to say to that, your ideology freezes you from seeing the reality of the situation and the routes out of it. There are no tools left in the toolbox. Itís a good thing to cut taxes during a recession and deficit spending is probably the best way to deal with a downturn but the clowns running the country have been doing both for 8 years already, what more can be done? There will become a point where no one will lend the U.S. any more money, the American people will have to carry this load at some point.

While nuclear and wind will not run your truck, they will run certain other things that currently use oil that can be diverted to your truck. Cheap oil depresses innovation into other energy sources. Cheap oil encourages waste and doesnít bring consequences to bear for poor decisions until we run into an oil shock like we had last summer, then it hits people like a sledge hammer.

James makes some great points about tax shifting.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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But that’s just for starters. Besides taxing oil giants more, Senator Obama’s detailed 30-point energy agenda calls for big changes to address carbon emissions, fuel efficiency for vehicles, and domestic and renewable power and efficiency.
I wonder if obama likes 3 main boxer engines.

I was hoping for a boxer 3 main McCain, but obama wil have to do.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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There are plenty of tools in the box, but they cannot be used as long as government stays in the way. When an alternate-fuel plant (Fischer-Tropsch coal gasification) cannot get a federal permit to construct, government is in the way. If reliable coal and nuclear plants are blocked because they cannot get federal permits, government is in the way. As long as government blocks the 40% more effient diesel engine in the USA, government is in the way. As long as government retains this arrogant attitude, I begrudge them a dime of my tax money. I'd rather give it to the Arabs than our arrogant government.
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Old 11-17-2008, 12:37 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
As long as government blocks the 40% more efficient diesel engine in the USA, government is in the way.
2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Preview | J.D. Power - being sold in all 50 states

2009 Honda Accord Diesel and New Honda Hybrids for 2009 - Car News/Green Machines/Car Shopping/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver
I don't think Honda is offering a 2009 Diesel, however...


Government didn't prevent any company from developing lower emissions diesels.... Emissions standards changed, no automakers had advanced enough on their own to meet them. It's obvious that the automakers didn't want to jump out of the diesel market, so they moved forward and met the standards... And by leave the market, I mean the very few automakers that sold diesel cars before the new emissions standards...

Even with that said, fueleconomy.gov has diesels listed....
2009
VW Jetta
VW Sportwagen
5 vehicles from Mercedes (too rich for me )
2008
4 vehicles from Mercedes
Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2WD and 4WD
VW Tuareg
2007
VW New Beetle
VW Golf
VW Jetta
Mercedes E320
Jeep Liberty/Cherokee
VW Tuareg

2000 - before Tier II
VW New Beetle
VW Jetta
VW Golf
VW
1999 - Before Tier II
VW New Beetle
VW Golf
VW Jetta
Merc E300
Chevy Tahoe 4WD
GMC Yukon 4WD


The way I'm seeing it - it's not government killing the diesel car... Before Tier II, ULSD, etc. VW was dominating, and really there wasn't much in the way of alternatives choices for other cars (unless you wanted a v8 Yukon or 6cyl Jeep rated for 18/23 ).... Jeep keeps dabbling in it, before and after Tier II - but they're not offering it, and I'm fairly certain it's not because they don't have the emissions technology (as per their 2008 offerings)...

Feel free to browse for yourself
Compare Diesels Side-by-Side
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Old 11-17-2008, 12:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hi,

I wonder if anybody here in the USA knows about the driven cam design; that replaces the crankshaft? I would imagine, it would be about 2X more efficient in whatever type of engine.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...html#post61682

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