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Old 11-02-2009, 11:08 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb View Post
for an ecomodder forum? that depends on how many aeromods and other regearing/retuning mods you have done
That would be quite a few now that I think about it. Most hotrodding mods are efficiency mods, after all. Any mod that helps me corner at higher g's saves fuel, too. So plenty.

Since the posted speed limit on a highway is a constant (depending on the state), does this forum measure what cars are most fuel efficient at that average speed? That would seem to be a better measurement than outright fuel efficiency because you could even get a Hummer to get great MPG if you drive slow enough and change the tires.

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Old 11-02-2009, 11:14 AM   #62 (permalink)
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lol, you got some catching up to do
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:45 AM   #63 (permalink)
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High speed crashes are far deadlier than low-speed crashes. A car going twice as fast has four times as much kinetic energy to dissipate.

Yet the number of deaths per mile driven fall when all the traffic is going the same speed. That's best achieved by raising the posted speed limit to match a speed that feels natural for that road. I remember someone did a study that concluded New York State's interstates got safer in rural stretches when the speed limit was raised from 55 to 65.

@aspera: You should assign a dollar value to your time and gasoline, and calculate how much of each you spend per mile at various speeds. I ran the numbers for the Subaru, and I concluded the correct speed is around 65mph, but anywhere in the 55-75mph range yields almost the same cost per mile.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:52 AM   #64 (permalink)
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High speed crashes are far deadlier than low-speed crashes. A car going twice as fast has four times as much kinetic energy to dissipate.
Something can't me more deadly. Its an either/or situation. You're either dead or you're not dead. You can't be half dead or sort of dead or dead but getting better. duh
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:06 AM   #65 (permalink)
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lol, that would be true only for sample size = 1
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:07 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspera View Post
That would be quite a few now that I think about it. Most hotrodding mods are efficiency mods, after all. Any mod that helps me corner at higher g's saves fuel, too. So plenty.

Since the posted speed limit on a highway is a constant (depending on the state), does this forum measure what cars are most fuel efficient at that average speed? That would seem to be a better measurement than outright fuel efficiency because you could even get a Hummer to get great MPG if you drive slow enough and change the tires.
"Most hot rodding mods are efficiency mods"

Kind of skirting around the issue of economy. Most hot rodding mods are merely getting more air and fuel into the same displacement which does nothing for fuel efficiency.

My Echo at 108 horsepower has averaged 50 MPG for 5k miles.

The same 1.5 liter displacement in a 1950 Alfa grand prix engine produced 390horsepower and got 2 MPG racing.

My Insight has averaged 65 MPG for the last 17,000 miles.

Are you saying the Alfa engine would get better mileage than my Echo?

Your comparison seems to determine efficiency by HP per cubic inch.

Our definition (in this forum) is best BSFC map.

In fact most performance mods and most engines designed for performance sacrifice efficiency (measured by mileage) for power.

Compare the mileage of a stock Honda Civic with the same year model SI version. That's a pretty good side by side comparison of power and economy.

Now when you separate the term efficiency from economy you get the real differences in "hot rod mods" and "fuel economy mods".

I want a longer stroke, lower differential ratio, taller gear ratios, and better aero and lower rolling resistance tires. You could argue the aero aspect, but in my definition aero includes modifications that would result in overheating if I drove my car at maximum speeds. In Indy cars the downforce is so great they could drive on the roof of a tunnel at speed. That is not efficient.

None of these have anything to do with performance. In fact they are the opposite of what a performance driver wants for his car.

I generally drive the speed limit or less.

Do you think I should drive over the speed limit because you wish to drive that way. That's why most major arteries have two lanes or more, and why I tend to stay in the right lane. You can pass me anytime you want. I will pass you at the gas pump, and at the ATM where you have to withdraw the funds to pay for your high speed addiction.

Been there done that. I have buried speedometers in many cars for many miles. Today in Virginia, if you do that you can loose your car. I have outrun cops. Today in Virginia, if you do that you are most likely going to jail, and loosing your car.

So consider this when you blast buy a grey haired old man driving slowly in the right lane.

He might be a better driver than you ever dreamed of being.
He might understand the physics of efficiency and economy to a level you may never obtain.
He might also have a better understanding of the cost and consequences of driving at high speeds.
He probably has a lot more money in the bank.
he is still alive, while you may not make it to that age.

My apologies if this seems harsh, but remember I have been there and enjoyed the time I drove like a maniac.

I just have absolutely no desire to play that game anymore.

In fact you will probably never seem me on the road, since I generally travel the secondary roads and enjoy the scenery, instead of pretending I am in a NASCAR race on a public freeway.

regards
Mech

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Old 11-03-2009, 12:35 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspera View Post
That would be quite a few now that I think about it. Most hotrodding mods are efficiency mods, after all. Any mod that helps me corner at higher g's saves fuel, too. So plenty.
+1
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Old 11-04-2009, 06:16 PM   #68 (permalink)
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My truck won't sustain those speeds without damage. The gearing isn't there; she revs too high and starts to overheat if I go a long time over 75.

I've seen folks get ticketed for going too slowly. If they raise the limit so high that my old but otherwise perfectly serviceable vehicle can't stay within 10mph of the limit, does that mean I get a ticket for unsafe vehicle operation, even though before the change I wasn't a hazard? That's unacceptable, to be trapped by a changed standard - legal one day, but not the next.
Well shucks, I've had mah horse since 1903 and used to ride it to market on the ol dirt road, but over time they paved the road and cars started a-honkin' at me! Now they done paved it better and made it an interstate, and now it's illegal to ride mah horse on it anymore! WHY IS THE WORLD CHANGIN' ALL AROUND ME!?!

I just drove through Utah on my way back from a 3800 mile road trip (in a 4x4 on big knobby tires.. ) and enjoyed the 80mph roads. They didn't change my actual speed that I was going to be driving anyway on those stretches, but they did make it so I was only 5 mph over the limit instead of 10.. FWIW I did spend about 15 miles drafting behind a tractor trailer... amazing how far back you can stay while still in the "bubble" behind a trailer going 85mph. Think they get an aero benefit from my vehicle occupying some of their wake?

Joni (my boobs life support device with integrated boobs) has an Acura TL, which is virtually impossible to drive under 40 mph. The speedometer reads to 160mph so 60mph isn't even at "11 o'clock" and you have to keep the gas pedal clean because if a few specks of dust land on it the car won't drive under 60. It's all quiet and smooth and the genuinely bad side effect of that is that driving 55mph is AGONIZING. Seriously if you're not going at least 80 you feel like you're sitting still, and even at 80 you don't feel or hear any sounds or sensations of speed, you're just vaguely aware that you're at least moving sorta. I know that's all in my head, but that makes it no less important to any driver - if you don't feel like you're going anywhere you'll speed up till you do feel like you're making progress.

I was content driving my old 80's Montero at 55mph all over the western USA because at that speed it felt like it was moving pretty good. It's the same reason I preferred driving my subaru-powered bicycle to work over driving my subaru-powered subaru... it took literally the same time to get across town, but 25mph on a bicycle is hauling arse compared to 25mph in a car
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:25 PM   #69 (permalink)
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25 mph on a bike is mad fun. 35 mph and passing cars is a f'ing riot!

There are stretches of I-20 in northwest SC where 70 mph (the rural interstate speed limit) feels like a crawl since the sight lines are long and the pavement lines are stretched out. Oh well, it's more gas money if I go faster with my carpool. So it's not getting great mileage, but is still better than me hypermiling and my carpool driving separately.

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