Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-23-2009, 01:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Like I said the car is not a marvel of engineering.

It's a giant glass chandalier. Its pretty and interesting, but when its time to actually do something it useless.

turboshaft with either no transmission(static single gear with a clucth) or 2-3 gears with the clutch gradually engaging the gear so the turbine does not have to spool up again but doesn't shread the gears/clutch.

hah the Y2K bike I posted earlier has a lifetime warranty(assuming you don't wreck it).

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-23-2009, 05:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 1,096

2k2Prot5 - '02 Mazda Protege5
90 day: 33.82 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
uhm... I just kinda skimmed most of the thread so i could respond to your first post. I think this car was designed for people who do real racing, not drag racing. It was also designed to go to the grocery store. I seem to recall that it is the current record holder for production car circling nurbergring.

They weren't trying to make a drag car. They were not trying to make a horsepower dyno queen. It is not a muscle car. They were trying to make a people's supercar and they did it. They also weren't trying to blow eardrums.

You claim "by any metric" that it is a massive fail, but the metric of "fastest production car around the nurbergring" (a pretty f'ing impressive metric) it has won. And it won without being a cramped little sports car.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 05:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
EV OR DIESEL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,748

FarFarfrumpumpen - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon GLS Premium

Quorra - '12 Tesla Model S P85
Thanks: 57
Thanked 107 Times in 83 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dremd
These guys MTT - Leading Turbine Innovation are located about 20 miles away from me; nifty stuff. They run on used Helicopter motors (in great supply here) so that's green, and they run great on bio-Diesel. I do not belive that typical typical turbines run well on RUG, but I do not know.

In a weird twist I had to wait to align the Supra a few moths back because their Mini was in the shop; lol.

I've seen their Mini (both here, and at SEMA), their S10, and a Y2k in action; awesome stuff, but not so much for me . . . ..

GTR is a very nice car. If you get an opportunity to ride/ drive one DEFIANTLY TAKE IT!
Launch control is killer; I've been lapped by one at MSR Houston, also fun to watch GTR vs Modded GTR racing for some reason the stock one is faster.
__________________
2012 Tesla Model S P85
2013 Nissan LEAF SV totaled by now deceased intoxacated driver.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
6 speed ALH TDI Swapped in to a 2003 Jetta Wagon
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 05:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
EV OR DIESEL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,748

FarFarfrumpumpen - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon GLS Premium

Quorra - '12 Tesla Model S P85
Thanks: 57
Thanked 107 Times in 83 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dremd
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post

Actually the EV1 had a turbine in it. If the batteries drooped in charge the turbine kicked on to full operating power(I don't know what the optimum rate of that turbine was but each has one and away from that the efficiency is not pretty but on that its not bad and P-W wise its pretty darn good).
Could you please provide more Info; I totally missed that? I think that I saw a pro type that was never meant for public consumption, but I can't remember were.
__________________
2012 Tesla Model S P85
2013 Nissan LEAF SV totaled by now deceased intoxacated driver.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
6 speed ALH TDI Swapped in to a 2003 Jetta Wagon
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 05:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 1,096

2k2Prot5 - '02 Mazda Protege5
90 day: 33.82 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dremd View Post
GTR vs Modded GTR racing for some reason the stock one is faster.
Any car can be driven by a slow driver
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 05:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
EV OR DIESEL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,748

FarFarfrumpumpen - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon GLS Premium

Quorra - '12 Tesla Model S P85
Thanks: 57
Thanked 107 Times in 83 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dremd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jim Bissel View Post
And charging you out the wazoo to maintain it. Just remembered seeing a link to this article in another forum.
It is definatley expensive to maintain; but no more (more like less) than other cars in that performance catagory. Try Lambo, Ferrari, Bugatti Maintance cost for comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jim Bissel View Post
edit: and don't expect to use that performance anywhere close to its fullest if you want to keep your warranty intact; And dont forget, big brother is watching you!
You are neglecting to mention that with the new Firmware the launch control does not void the warranty, the 2 guys I've talked to say that they like the new launch control better also, and their drag times remained the same.
__________________
2012 Tesla Model S P85
2013 Nissan LEAF SV totaled by now deceased intoxacated driver.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
6 speed ALH TDI Swapped in to a 2003 Jetta Wagon
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 06:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
EV OR DIESEL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,748

FarFarfrumpumpen - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon GLS Premium

Quorra - '12 Tesla Model S P85
Thanks: 57
Thanked 107 Times in 83 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dremd
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
Like I said the car is not a marvel of engineering.
Step out of a Twin Turbo Supra, a Porsche GT3 in to a GTR at a road course and then tell me that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
It's a giant glass chandalier.
Of the 4 at the TK2k9 Meet None had a single failure.
I can't say that for the 3 Vipers(1 Blown Transmission, 1 Blown Rear end), The 2 Porsche GT3's (1 blew a trans, 1 broke front right suspension),
the 3 Porsche GT3's(1 blew the intake pipes off the motor when he span it, had to pull the motor to re-attach),
the 1 Ford Gt (blew the clutch),
the Loads of supras had numerous failures also (2 many to name).

Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
Its pretty and interesting, but when its time to actually do something it useless.
VERY Good Road course car, Very good highway racing car, VERY good standing start car, very comfortable, very quiet

Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
turboshaft with either no transmission(static single gear with a clucth) or 2-3 gears with the clutch gradually engaging the gear so the turbine does not have to spool up again but doesn't shread the gears/clutch.
I've only seen them with CVt's and Powerglides

Quote:
Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
hah the Y2K bike I posted earlier has a lifetime warranty(assuming you don't wreck it).
Turbine engines are very durable, no doubt; just not ideal for the street.

Man; I sound like a GTR fan boy. I hated that car just a month ago. ERr
__________________
2012 Tesla Model S P85
2013 Nissan LEAF SV totaled by now deceased intoxacated driver.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
6 speed ALH TDI Swapped in to a 2003 Jetta Wagon
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 06:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dremd View Post
These guys MTT - Leading Turbine Innovation are located about 20 miles away from me; nifty stuff. They run on used Helicopter motors (in great supply here) so that's green, and they run great on bio-Diesel. I do not belive that typical typical turbines run well on RUG, but I do not know.

In a weird twist I had to wait to align the Supra a few moths back because their Mini was in the shop; lol.

I've seen their Mini (both here, and at SEMA), their S10, and a Y2k in action; awesome stuff, but not so much for me . . . ..

GTR is a very nice car. If you get an opportunity to ride/ drive one DEFIANTLY TAKE IT!
Launch control is killer; I've been lapped by one at MSR Houston, also fun to watch GTR vs Modded GTR racing for some reason the stock one is faster.
Turbines are not really configured to run anything other than standard gasoline(in any octane) but they can do it for extended periods without any real issues other than maybe getting some residues stuck on the injectors, walls, flame can, and turbine blades. That said when anyone talks about running them on those things they are talking about power generation so its running 3600 rpms 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Take it with a grain of salt, because your car engine wouldn't last very long under those circumstances(maybe 2 weeks).

Ok I hear you both. Its a supercar, its not a toy. Its not a special purpose car its a production car.

And the Ariel Atom is a production car and I am pretty sure had it been run it would have beaten the GTR.

The GTR has an extremely expensive service regime. Its going to cost you more than 15K more than you paid in just the first 10K miles.

Chrysler built a turbine engined car in 63. The powerplant was very primitive compared to anything manufactured from 89 on as far as turbines go.

Ask Dremd how fast the Y2K was. Then I am going to tell you thats not even that big of a turbine and its configured in several ways that destroy HP. The biggest problem is the exhaust has to be turned and routed forward making a 180 degree turn and then doing it again. On a turbine its a big deal because back pressure is the enemy.

A car is plenty long enough to mount on longitudinally have it run the front wheels have the exhaust pipe out the back at reasonable temperatures and to avoid starving the engine. The y2k doesn't have an ideal intake.

Effectively if you took a very light chassis like a Lotus and dropped in a turbine of the same weight as their 1.8 engines(200-300 lbs) you come out with a 1 ton vehicle with no trans and output up to 300-450 hp. If you add a trans you can add say 2 more gears and the vehicle will crucify the GTR, around bends(lighter) straights(drag) and to the grocery store because the engine is more fuel efficient.

Chrysler's tank(the 1963 turbine car or the A-831) weighed twice as much as the lotus does and turbine designs have radically improved since then(some in power but mostly in FE). It still got 23 mpg.

A turbine powered lotus could do everything the GTR can do, more, be cheaper to maintain(by a long shot) and get better gas mileage. Your super-lotus would get peak FE on the highway at great speed(the ram scoop would be vacuuming the engine forward defeating alot of drag and achieving its peak performance) whereas the GTR has a reciprocating engine and thus would be starving for FE and power at over 120 mph because you can only turn the cylinder around and dump air so fast.

Its the end of WWII and I am arguing we should build the Jet fighter despite the fact no one else has done it yet, and you are arguing for supersharged radials because we have done that and they are cheaper to produce because we have lots of those around. Give it a few years and true-blue supercars will be turboshaft.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 06:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
EV OR DIESEL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,748

FarFarfrumpumpen - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon GLS Premium

Quorra - '12 Tesla Model S P85
Thanks: 57
Thanked 107 Times in 83 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dremd
Quote:
Originally Posted by MazdaMatt View Post
Any car can be driven by a slow driver
Peter, Saad Saad, and SW swapped several times; same result throughout "test".
__________________
2012 Tesla Model S P85
2013 Nissan LEAF SV totaled by now deceased intoxacated driver.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
6 speed ALH TDI Swapped in to a 2003 Jetta Wagon
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 06:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 850
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
The EV1 turboshaft was in a prototype and was scrapped because at the time Microturbines were not high-end enough(low P-W). Now on the other hand its getting alot better.

Like I said above my complaint about it is its not an engineers car.

Why would I make a more complicated engine thats only advantage over a much simpler more powerful one is its first 2 seconds off the line?

Yes they have spool-up down time. No its not very long. Its the same as a turbo. So your twin turbos in your GTR take the same amount of time to spool up as my engine. When that happens you've got 480 horses, I've got 700 and somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 ft-lb of torque.

On the street its going to leave the red-light at the same speed as everyone else. Go watch Jay Leno in his dozen videos on the net. Its not like he has to sit and wait ten seconds before the bike moves, its moving when he hits the gas. The engine idles and you let the clucth and it acclerates as you do so.

If the engine has to start at 0 rpm and then get to speed yes its a problem, but your twin turbos will cook themselves if you flip the key and stomp the gas. try it. A friend of mine in high school did it trying to show off and his engine just shut down, the turbo came apart as it vaporized the oil and then got sucked in pieces into the engine.

If my turboshaft is already idling you only get the initial 2 seconds as my blades overcome their static inertia and then its all over. Not to mention I can go get groceries on less gas than the GTR. . .so. . . the GTR is way more a toy than a turboshaft.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tire size and FE with a Jeep zjrog Off-Topic Tech 22 01-24-2011 11:32 PM
Driving the Scanguage for FE Harry6 Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 12 04-02-2010 01:51 PM
FE Acceleration thought experiment. TestDrive Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 2 01-28-2009 11:24 AM
Basic EcoDriving Techniques and Instrumentation SVOboy Instrumentation 2 11-17-2007 12:38 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com