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Old 12-16-2016, 02:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
...I think the energy saved by keeping cars from having to run their AC likely outweighs the generation.
Why would a car have to run the A/C while charging? Or do you mean that there are EV owners just as stupid as the IC owners who leave their vehicles idling in parking lots for the A/C?

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Old 12-16-2016, 02:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Why would a car have to run the A/C while charging? Or do you mean that there are EV owners just as stupid as the IC owners who leave their vehicles idling in parking lots for the A/C?
Two reasons. First, fast charging creates a lot of heat and the battery pack needs cooling. Second, and what I really meant, was that if you go back to a car that's 120 degrees inside from sitting in the sun, your AC is going to be chugging away for the first 20 minutes or so once you get on the road. That's unnecessary consumption.
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Old 12-16-2016, 04:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan
The idea of using a battery to supply 350kw to charge a battery is really kind of dumb.
Unless you are trying to increase cost and complexity to increase the size of the government grant you are after.
You might review EVTV's solar DC charging system. EVTV Friday Show - August 5, 2016. Fastcharge your Tesla using Sunshine.

They found it's cheaper than the $50K to bring in 3-phase power.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I would be surprised if running lines that could support single car 350kw charging costs less than 50,000 per mile.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Do we really need 350kw charging everywhere? Superchargers put out 120kw which is about 170 miles worth of range in 30 minutes. That should be plenty for most charging, and making the cars more efficient will increase the effective rate of range increase with the same wattage.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:50 AM   #26 (permalink)
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oil pan 4 -- Downtown Cape Girardeau, MO. You can see in the opening titles their tright next to the bridge and government offices.

vskid3 --I believe the formulation is 'Too much is not enough'. I'd worry though, it's like a lightning bolt running through you hand.
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Old 12-17-2016, 12:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vskid3 View Post
Do we really need 350kw charging everywhere? Superchargers put out 120kw which is about 170 miles worth of range in 30 minutes. That should be plenty for most charging, and making the cars more efficient will increase the effective rate of range increase with the same wattage.
When people say "we don't have the infrastructure for it" well with ludicrous speed chargers we dont.

At least tesla was smart enough to do some math and figure out that 120kw chargers could be integrated into a lot of places with existing service with out problem.

I'm assuming that there is still no mention of how much all this is going to cost?
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:16 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I'm assuming none of you who think it's a good idea to "use a battery bank" even tried to figure how much battery it would take to supply even a portion of 350kw?
I'm assuming you already know about "demand charges" that electric companies levy on industrial consumers, but some people don't...

Electricity supply has to meet electricity demand, at all times. As mentioned above, the demand and supply has a certain amount of "inertia", which is to say that electric companies can't just supply more electricity instantly. Fortunately, demand for electricity also tends to have a certain amount of inertia.

If demand for electricity spikes faster than the utility can supply it, you get a brownout. If the opposite occurs, and you get a sudden drop in demand, the excess power must be instantly absorbed by something, often times dumped to ground.

It costs more to not only supply the high demand infrastructure for these chargers, but the overall balance of supply/demand on the grid suffers as well. This is why demand charges are billed to industrial consumers.

Using batteries smooths out these substantial demand peaks by acting as a buffer to the grid. The batteries can supply peak demands while presenting itself as a more steady draw on the grid. There is a tradeoff in the cost of the batteries (one time cost) vs the cost of installing higher demand capacity from the grid (monthly recurring cost).
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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This reminds me a bit of the apple lightning connector vs usb-c.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Where I work we use more power every day than a 2 story 2400sq.ft. house with a family of 5 uses in 12 years.
And they are not shy about spending several million dollars to lower the bills. 3 expansions to conserve natural gas, power but mostly to save water, all no less than 10 million each.
The 700hp ammonia compressor motors draw up to 1,100 amps of 480 on start up and they cycle on and off all the time.
500hp motors draw 500 to 700 amps depending on if they are driving compressors or turbo fans.
We don't use batteries.
Bank maintenance would cost more than it would save.

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