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Old 03-09-2019, 07:40 PM   #71 (permalink)
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That's an interesting perspective. Can you compare and contrast VFD and Software Defined electricity?

Should I try?

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Old 03-10-2019, 03:26 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Where I work we have up to 700 horsepower motors on drives. The drives appear to be fully air cooled.
There are seven 700hp motor and two 500hp motors on drives that run 480v.
The 700s are on ammonia compressors and the 500s are on mechanical vapor recirculation turbo fans.
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:29 PM   #73 (permalink)
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never seen

Originally Posted by thingstodo View Post
The in-rush is lower when you do soft-start. But you need to over-size the motor since the torque delivered (compressors are under some load, although not 100% load, when they start) is 30 - 45% of rated torque on reduced-voltage start. I have never seen a soft-start that claims to limit current to nameplate values. Do you have a link?

We used VFDs to start and switch to across-the-line afterward, where the variable speed is not required.

500 HP is as high as we go with 600V equipment. At 460V, you would need to drop to maybe 400 HP. The currents get too high and it's too hard to cool the equipment with air only. There are water-cooled industrial VFDs but they are quite expensive. When looking at the whole system cost, they might be worth it though.

You'd likely have to bump up to a 2000V motor for the 500 - 1000 HP range to make the VFD reasonable to cool. But there are other issues with the 2000V VFDs. Nothing that money can't solve, but still kinda pricey. The VFDs don't use silicon any more ... or they chain different stages of silicon switching together. More hardware, more complexity, more cost.

Using VFDs gets you into harmonic issues though. Then you need to add harmonic filters at your 2KV or 15KV distribution level. And they are kinda pricey as well.
I'm not a double-E,and the information was from my college text on electrical engineering and electronics.We never had a lab for that class,so it's all theoretical to me.
All the texts had similar equations,basically showing power triangles,with Pythagorean-like trig. functions for the resistive,inducive,and reactive legs, and knowing the running power for a load,one could solve for a power factor of unity,and say,apply the proper capacitance to achieve unity.
My oldest brother worked around electronics with Los Angeles County for 30-years.He had to do this sort of thing.
We were talking about the 'Green New Deal' over the phone,and while he's not necessarily for a command and control government,he does think load -shedding efficiencies are a great thing.He specifically mentioned zero-penalty soft-start,as did my college and US Navy electronics text.
When I was doing air-ballancing and hydronics,many clients had gone to SIEMENS,solid-state-electronic controlled variable-speed air handlers.My brother says there's far better technology out there now,compared to what I'd seen.
200-ton chillers all had variable-pitch inlet vanes,which allowed zero-load starts.
Cooling tower fans and pumps had all been optimized for a power factor of 1.
Soft-start pump technology was coming in.(this was 1986)
Scroll-type compressors,I understand,are soft-start,and even in domestic HVAC systems,offer variable-speed compressors for heat pump/AC,as well as soft-start air handlers.
I don't think I've ever worked around anything over 440-VAC ,3-phase.
500-hp.that's impressive!
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:37 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I never much cared for the battery swap thing.
At the Arizona Power and Light, Solar 500,in 1995,at Phoenix International Raceway,Michael Hackleman's team had either a quick charge,or quick change pack.
The car would roll into the pits,dump the pack,roll forwards over a hot pack,which would be jacked into place,secured,and off they'd go.It was impressive.

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