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Old 03-24-2008, 02:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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oldnewbie

Hey, just couldn't resist. Drove three Volvo 122s over a 30 year stretch and then just ran out of "bodies" to resurrect 6 years ago. My "new" car is a '98 Neon with 30K miles on it; should be the last I ever need, except I think I already need a CRX. But all this is beside the point....

I was attracted especially by those references to hydrogen generators. I met, a few years back, an inventor seeking help marketing a generator. Got a good look at it and lab results on mpg gains (12-26% diesel) and emissions. Too simple a gadget to patent, except for design which could be finessed easily by competitors.

This unit hydrolyzed water, collected free gas in a plastic 'doghouse' with a hip-roof. Hydrogen outlet at peak of roof (hose fitting there). Outlets in surrounding eaves for Oxygen. Naturally expired. Hydrogen passes through hose to a fitting behind air cleaner.

Tried to read through this site, maybe missed something somewhere. Has anybody around here bought a generator? If so does it do much more than that? What and how?

I just found the generator thread. Busy reading it now.


Last edited by virg; 03-24-2008 at 02:45 PM.. Reason: found the generator thread
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Old 03-24-2008, 03:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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welcome to EM! are you talking about those water-to-hydrogen things? I've heard they're a scam. But I don't know of anyone whose bought one because... most are too darned expensive!

If it's not what I'm thinking of. then nevermind.. But welcome anyways!
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Old 03-24-2008, 04:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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D-P-View,
Yes the things advertised around here and google, FAR too expensive. The design I saw consisted of tank, electrodes, a heavy duty solenoid/ switch to power it and little more. Maybe $60 worth of hardware.

I'm wondering what goes into a thousand-Dollar outfit that you'd really need. The lightness of hydrogen and air current at intake will be enough of Nature to tell whether the idea is worth a try. If it is I can carry on from there.

I know I don't want much hydrogen and free oxgen around at one time so pump and tank won't take much. Intake air will siphon hydrogen without much help. What else can you think of?
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hi virg - welcome to the site.

One reason I've not invested a lot of time looking into HHO generators is because they're so closely associated with and marketed like other MPG scams out there. That alone, to me, is a huge red flag. (You have no idea how many "run your car on water!" ads I've had to exclude via the Google Adsense filter).

I tend to agree with the positions taken by the writer of fuelsaving.info in general, so I rely on the points on his page advising skepticism about bolt-on HHO generators:

http://fuelsaving.info/hydrogen.htm
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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virg -

Welcome to EM! I'm glad you have been "savin' da gas" all these years. I would like to hear about your Volvo 122 experience. I have this eerie feeling I am slowing becoming a pseudo-Corvair/Saturn owner myself. But, I doubt I will be able to keep mine going for 30 years!!!!!!! I'd be ecstatic to just reach 300K miles.

I have a hydrogen generator from www.hydrogen-boost.com, but I have been too chicken to do all the extra mods needed to make it work as claimed (MAP and 02 sensor, fuel heater). In my opinion, the simplest/ most economical place for it is in diesel engines under "normal" workload. What I mean by "normal" is using the diesel engine under normal non-hypermiling conditions.

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Old 03-24-2008, 11:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Taken from that link.

Quote:
So, this is a great technology and we should all rush out and bolt hydrogen generators onto our cars? Well, no. The problem is that the rest of the engine needs to be optimised as well to get the benefits. To take advantage of the higher octane rating, the compression ratio must be raised by redesigning the cylinder head or pistons. More critically, the ability to burn a leaner mixture is only useful if the engine ECU is configured to inject a very lean air/fuel ratio, and manage the required variations in spark timing and fuelling (which current production vehicles, without exception, are not). Simply speeding up the burn, even if theoretically advantageous, is likely to make economy worse if the ignition timing is not adjusted to suit.
As a result of these considerations, I am highly sceptical about the use of hydrogen generators as an aftermarket fuel "saving" device, and will remain so until the makers produce some good results.

Many devices that produce hydrogen via on-board electrolysis feed not pure hydrogen, but a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, to the engine. This mixture (two parts hydrogen to one part oxygen) is commonly known as Brown's Gas. Various semi-magical properties are claimed for this gas, but these are widely disputed and should be considered with scepticism.
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Complete Hydrogen-Boost System Gasoline Vehicle $1000
wow... the hydrogen-boost system one comes with a scangauge... $1000 bucks though... for a system that could hurt your car.. that costs more than most people buy geo's by themselves!
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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As Metrompg said, and pointed out hydrogen is useful for increasing efficiency. It has been proven. However, you can't just slap on a hydrogen cell and get gains. You NEED to retune the engine for it to work. Any kit without some form of fuel and ignition controller is not going to do squat. Ideally, you have engine modifications that go hand in hand such as increasing compression. If you are willling to do all that you will see benefits.

I am working on a cell for one of my vehicles (haven't decided yet, but I want to put it on the Matrix in the end). I'm sure it won't be done with it anytime soon, but this summer I'll definitly be working on it. Just waiting for a warm freakin day so I can try out my plastic welder. Stop snowing already!
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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"Design" and "engineer" and "market" can be either nouns or verbs, and that's what has us messing with efficiency here. We can throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks, maybe identify a problem for further work. This is why I'd like to start with a cheap simple hydrogen bleed, on the car I have. Yes it's a deep subject, no it ain't cheap.

Cars are designed, engineered to target part of the market. In most cases, not at all well. And later in some state of wear , we tinker with them. Throw a handful against the wall and.......
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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cfg8, yeah I really came just to talk of the volvos, maybe warn you about where you're headed too if you don't watch yer step! Here's how it works. When I got the low-miles 3 year-old in '67 I resolved to do all the work myself, buying all needed tools. Kept that one 9 years and as it rusted in half found a bone-dry '68 in Texas that I kept 10 years. In the meantime there was a '66 in Ark I couldn't resist that stuck around til '99 (rusty). The only maintenance I didn't do was mount tires. (long story huh?) All were daily drivers.

27/32 mpg city/hwy, later 33/39. I could plan a two-day trip without thinking twice about fuel. I could laugh over the new horror stories on repairs. Smartest dude on the road! Driving for free (3/4 million miles on $2700 in used cars) Knew everything I needed to until I ran out of old Volvos and then overnight I'm the dumbest creep around. The world had changed entirely while I wasn't looking, and I've got no idea what makes these cars tick.

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