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View Poll Results: Will raising the gas tax encourage people to buy more efficient vehicles?
That will not deter auto makers from making inefficient cars, it will only hurt consumers wallets. 15 34.88%
Raising the gas tax will cause more people buy more efficient vehicles. 27 62.79%
I build my own electric cars from old gas cars and charge them with off-the-grid solar/wind power. 1 2.33%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-11-2009, 11:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I oppose raising Taxes. ANY taxes. It just encourages the idiots to waste more of our money!

Gas will get pricey again without higher taxes, it always has before. I am for higher gas prices-it makes people consider things a bit-but i'm not for giving more of it to a wasteful, inefficient and corrupt government which then spends its time on figuring out better ways of abolishing our rights and finishing our transition from fully-realized human beings into mindless consumer units that shamble cradle-to-grave in Serf's manacles...

Abolish Income Tax, and abolish the IRS. A man who does not own his labor is not free.
Abolish Land Tax. When land is bought, it is paid for ONCE.
Restore Tariffs-the US is just about the only country that has largely discontinued them.
Cut Federal Government to the bone. Eliminate unnecessary spending and Pork Barrel. The ATF was created solely to employ all those poor, unemployed Prohibition agents-the agency is obsolete. The CIA breaks its own mandates daily(operating inside the US itself is a no-no)-fire the lot of them, change the NSA's mandate from Domestic to Foreign Ops and watch them like hawks to prevent them from turning into another CIA! Homeland Security becomes a co-ordinating agency with no enforcement powers-their job will be strictly liason between Law Enforcement and Intelligence agencies...this leaves the Secret Service to protect the President, Law Enforcement from Local to Federal levels intact and gets rid of 'domestic Security' Brownshirts.

Cut Military spending by 65%. We don't need military bases in every foreign nation unless we're an Empire, so let's get rid of the expense. We have Nukes, nobody's going to invade in force. Terrorism will be dealt with by Law Enforcement from within , NSA/MI in open waters and by other Governments on their own soil, with UN help if needed.

Cut Foreign Aid. Stop giving money to countries who don't need it or are more successful than we are(Israel, France, Germany etc). Save it for the Third world as it was intended and for Disaster Relief efforts.

Now that we've leaned out the Federal FE, raise Sales Tax just a bit (no more than 10% total) raise Luxury Tax a LOT (the Wealthy no longer pay Income Tax so they still come out way, way ahead) increase Fees across the board ( Registration, Surveying, Inspections of cars/buildings, permits) another 10-12% . Now the States have plenty of operating capital (pre-collected so no Tax Season or forms). Have at least half of these operations work at the County level, with the resulting moneys distributed to the States on a fixed ratio. The less centralized we can keep our Governments, the less likely we are to have the corruption and scandals that have plagued our Nation for the past centur-

Oh.
Um.
These Soapboxes just spring up under my feet when i'm standing still don't they? Sorry, back to Gas Tax, i'll just carry these home for firewood....

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Old 05-11-2009, 11:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I agree with you, although Ben pointed out on AIM that fluctuating prices are devastating to the people and economy
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by order99 View Post
I oppose raising Taxes. ANY taxes. It just encourages the idiots to waste more of our money!
This statement we agree upon, it stands to reason that if given the opportunity to spend ones own money on something, you will find the best deal or at least get what you want. When someone else spends your money for you, there isn't that worry or sensitivity. They spend it so easily because "well, it's not my money..."

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Originally Posted by order99 View Post
Gas will get pricey again without higher taxes, it always has before. I am for higher gas prices-it makes people consider things a bit-but i'm not for giving more of it to a wasteful, inefficient and corrupt government which then spends its time on figuring out better ways of abolishing our rights and finishing our transition from fully-realized human beings into mindless consumer units that shamble cradle-to-grave in Serf's manacles...
First, losing your temper is not going to solve the problems. Second, again I agree with most of this, however to say that you are for higher gas prices means you are not for a free and open market, which requires the gasoline and other products to set their own prices, via supply and demand. If the gas prices are low today and high tomorrow, so be it. Do not artificially inflate something to screw up supply and demand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by order99 View Post
Abolish Income Tax, and abolish the IRS. A man who does not own his labor is not free.
Abolish Land Tax. When land is bought, it is paid for ONCE.
Restore Tariffs-the US is just about the only country that has largely discontinued them.
Cut Federal Government to the bone. Eliminate unnecessary spending and Pork Barrel. The ATF was created solely to employ all those poor, unemployed Prohibition agents-the agency is obsolete. The CIA breaks its own mandates daily(operating inside the US itself is a no-no)-fire the lot of them, change the NSA's mandate from Domestic to Foreign Ops and watch them like hawks to prevent them from turning into another CIA! Homeland Security becomes a co-ordinating agency with no enforcement powers-their job will be strictly liason between Law Enforcement and Intelligence agencies...this leaves the Secret Service to protect the President, Law Enforcement from Local to Federal levels intact and gets rid of 'domestic Security' Brownshirts.
Here is where we begin to disagree. Unfortunately, there are two things in life that are definite, death and taxes. I agree that a tremendous amount of wasteful spending must be cut, and the majority of government (federal) can be let go and most of us would never miss them, nor know that they were even gone. But when you begin to believe in conspiracy theories, people are going to question your sanity. I won't, I am one of the many people that believe that we still are sitting on technology like the Pogue carburetor and doinging nothing with it because "It would disrupt the system."
At least tone down the government conspiracy a little, just as a precaution .

Quote:
Originally Posted by order99 View Post
Cut Military spending by 65%. We don't need military bases in every foreign nation unless we're an Empire, so let's get rid of the expense. We have Nukes, nobody's going to invade in force. Terrorism will be dealt with by Law Enforcement from within , NSA/MI in open waters and by other Governments on their own soil, with UN help if needed.
Again, I must rein you in here, military is what keeps the enemies that want what we have away. You cut the spending, I say make better use of that spending. If there were a flat tax in place, about 3% of income (yes I did say 3%) on everyone, including the poor and impoverished, as well as the super wealthy and super rich (there is a difference between wealthy and rich) with NO DEDUCTIONS ALLOWED (and no capital gains taxes to boot) the government would have more than enough capital to fund a Very strong military. This would deter terrorists and other enemies of the US more so than nuclear weapons. You can't fight guerrilla tactics with nuclear arms, it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by order99 View Post
Cut Foreign Aid. Stop giving money to countries who don't need it or are more successful than we are(Israel, France, Germany etc). Save it for the Third world as it was intended and for Disaster Relief efforts.
You mean stop babysitting? Sure I'm for that. But to assist our allies, I want to do that too "oh Britain, you need to borrow lunch money? sure, just catch me on payday and get it back to me." You can't just turn away friends, but they cannot become leaches either.

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Originally Posted by order99 View Post
Now that we've leaned out the Federal FE, raise Sales Tax just a bit (no more than 10% total) raise Luxury Tax a LOT (the Wealthy no longer pay Income Tax so they still come out way, way ahead) increase Fees across the board ( Registration, Surveying, Inspections of cars/buildings, permits) another 10-12% . Now the States have plenty of operating capital (pre-collected so no Tax Season or forms). Have at least half of these operations work at the County level, with the resulting moneys distributed to the States on a fixed ratio. The less centralized we can keep our Governments, the less likely we are to have the corruption and scandals that have plagued our Nation for the past centur-
Alright pal, why attack the wealthy? They are those that create wealth. Without wealthy people (not rich), there is no capital to create jobs and continue functioning as an effective entity on this planet. Rich people (here's the difference) inherited or won their money, they never earned it.
Those that earned the money and gave it to an heir, and the heir doesn't use that money to make more money? That is a rich person.
Those that earned the money and gave it to an heir, and the heir uses that money to make huge piles of cash and employs a ton of people? That is a wealthy person.
I agree that there are a lot of reforms and changes that must be made, but you think that wealthy and rich people are the problem? How about the 50% of Americans that don't pay a cent of income tax? Those people that make up the bottom 50% of our totem pole. When you have a system that rewards the lazy and punishes the productive, that system is broken.

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Oh.
Um.
These Soapboxes just spring up under my feet when i'm standing still don't they? Sorry, back to Gas Tax, i'll just carry these home for firewood....
Likewise, I must relinquish my soapbox to the next person. Next?
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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...You cannot tell me what to do if I am not hurting anyone else...
But you don't get to decide if your actions do, or have the potential to, "hurt" anyone else or not. i.e. You may think you should be able to smoke in the maternity ward, but that doesn't make it so.

re: potential, Just because you have the money and resources to develop anthrax in your garage doesn't mean you should not be lynched if you choose to do so.

So "hurt" is a matter of degree. There is no action you can take that does not have an effect. Obviously there are extremely innocuous actions (I'm flapping my arms right now) with nearly 1/infinity chance of doing anyone an injustice, but you get my meaning. We are all in this together, like it or not, that much you don't get to choose.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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But you don't get to decide if your actions do, or have the potential to, "hurt" anyone else or not. i.e. You may think you should be able to smoke in the maternity ward, but that doesn't make it so.
I want to meet the guy who wants to, because he would get beaten to a pulp. That is interrupting someone else's freedom. If that same guy wants to smoke in his car on the freeway with his windows down, more power to him.

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re: potential, Just because you have the money and resources to develop anthrax in your garage doesn't mean you should not be lynched if you choose to do so.
Who would want to develop anthrax in their garage unless it was for malicious purposes, why would they make it for giggles?

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So "hurt" is a matter of degree. There is no action you can take that does not have an effect. Obviously there are extremely innocuous actions (I'm flapping my arms right now) with nearly 1/infinity chance of doing anyone an injustice, but you get my meaning. We are all in this together, like it or not, that much you don't get to choose.
Your flapping is offensive, I am calling my lawyer right now. Kidding, but actions that effect other people are plain, not innocuous. The fact that gas guzzling SUVs are still sold means that consumption by that individual is effecting the quantity of gasoline available to the rest of us. They are paying for that privilege at the pump. Air quality controls are in place on engines and most states test emissions on vehicles. I really have no closer on this evaluation of your opinion, but you are of an independent mindset, and I laud you for it. Next naysayer please!
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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gas tax

I would create a permanent record and archive of all stockholders and proxies of U.S.-based multinational oil companies who import foreign oil or finished products into the U.S..Secondly,I would tally up the cost,now born by the general taxpayer, of protection,to guarantee the safe passage of these foreign products into the U.S. currently provided by the State Dept.,DEPT. of DEFENSE,FBI,CIA,NSA,NRO,Military Intel.,NAVY,ARMY,AIR FORCE,U.S.Special Forces,COAST GUARD,etc.,and divide the cost,then invoice each shareholder for their share of the expense.---- Then fuel would finally reflect its actual cost at the pump.At around $4.75-gallon ( today's cost),no doubt,motorists would look into more efficient travel.-------- Or you could repeal the maritime laws which prevent merchant vessels from arming themselves.It would be like the British East India Company,guarding its opium shipments to China.Even with the cost of defense factored in,opium still sold at prices even the poorest could afford,and shareholders made a fortune.-- And since 80- mpg Supercars went on sale by the Big-Three in 2007,$4.75/gallon is cheap,when the higher mpg is factored in.At that point,we don't need no stinkin' taxes.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I apologise for bumping a week-old thread. However, there was a spike, although the recession will keep gas at a more affordable price
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The Poll doesn't close until June 1st, so I appreciate you bumping it. But instead of a gas tax, they passed the New Hampshire stimulus package, AKA raising Mass sales tax by 25%. Oh, and they almost raised the income tax too. Good job, Beacon Hill. You are successful in driving business away from us like we have the plague.

P.S. They also passed a tax - tax. It's adding sales tax to alcohol and that tax is also charged on the booze tax that the liquor already had. Just makes more people buy their groceries and cigarettes and, well, pretty much everything from New Hampshire.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Peak Oil might take care of the price rise by itself soon.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I oppose all taxes. period.

Up until 1909 the Us government operated and did not create debt without a federal income tax.

And no sales taxes are not regressive. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Sales tax is fair for everyone. Rich people pay way more in sales taxes than the average buyers because alot of the items they buy have special sales taxes. Just because its a bigger percentage of the income for the lower class individuals(not by much) they still pay less in sales tax overall than the upper class and most of the time said individuals used for any study along those lines pay 0 income tax. When compared with income tax and sales taxes its not even close.

The Honda Insight came around when gas was reasonably cheap. Name a mass produced car that does better that was on that scale out there today? Gas is a dollar more than when it was designed and released. Gas is also a dollar more than when the HF and VX were released. . .

All high gas prices do is manipulate what cars have ridiculous price tags. Cars that get only 5-6 more mpg flew off lots when it would take more than the cars lifetime to pay for the new car.

Legislation will not solve the problem either.

The answer to the problem is to let Chrysler and GMC die. If that happens then a huge chunk of the US market opens up for competition and small versatile capable car companies can step in and start making niche markets. Eventually some of them will step up and become like Aptera and some of them will have fantastic FE gassers.

As long as Chrysler and GMC limp on producing cars at a loss that suck up market share for no valid reasons that innovation is impossible.

Government activity is always the death of innovation. If our government had been around during the Captains of Industry era no one would have believed a vertical monopoly would work because they would have shut it down before it succeeded. Consequently they would have kicked the steel industry straight overseas instead of allowing it to slowly be farmed out while they meddle with it.

Government has 0 provisions for interferring in the market, and Adam Smith would tell you you're always worse off when they do. The general welfare and the specific individuals they chose to interfere with.

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