OVERALL economy of vehicles

[SoobieOut]

Found this website that takes a per person viewpoint on MPG. Amazing how efficient air travel has become.

GPM - The MPG Illusion

[nimblemotors]

What about the cost to convert to electric? roughly $10-20k
as I understand from my research, conversion to NG is dominated by the cost imposed by the government. In India it is very inexpensive. In california, it is essentially outlawed. but I agree, electric is the way to go for the future, no Co2, renewable energy via wind or solar panels.

someone must buy a new cars, or there would not be used ones!
Buying a new car to increase MPG is a false economy, but there are many reasons to buy a car, new or used. The warranty is like the payment plan for repairs.

Yep, not always about money. People spend money are many things.
I don't need a boat, but it makes time with my family very enjoyable.
Many of the modifications discussed here also don't make sense.
My MGEO will not recover the build costs in gas savings in all likelihood.
It is more a hobby and a challenge, but does move us in the right direction for the future. If oil becomes $500/barrel, then it WILL have a big ROI.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Not really. First, there's the cost of installing the natural gas system, then there are the environmental costs of increasing natural gas extraction. After that, there are the "lost opportunity" costs of moving from one fossil fuel to another, vs getting off fossil entirely.

Then you need to consider that for at least some of us, it's not really about money at all.

[fjasper]

Originally Posted by cfguy2000

How about comparing versus a used vehicle? It seems like wishful thinking to believe that you could save enough gas to get a new car but you can get a 1997 Corolla that gets 30+ mpg for about $2000. Just a thought.

Trouble is, then I get into the murky land of "But I like this car." Since I have a little old car that gets about 30mpg for everyday use, the comparison was basically to figure out if I could sell the little car and the highway cruiser and get the characteristics of both in a single vehicle. The answer turned out to be "not really", at least not for a price that seems reasonable to me.

The big car has all kinds of neat stuff I like (towing ability, luxury features, etc.), some of which the new car would have, but keeping the two older cars is cheaper than replacing them with a single new car with these abilities, so I kind of feel like I'm getting more for less by keeping the two rigs.

[cfg83]

Hello -

I'm in the dark side of old car ownership right now. My car is in the shop with an intermittent starter gremlin right now. It's either the ignition cylinder (where the key goes), the clutch sensor, or the starter motor, or a wire in-between. Because the problem is intermittent, I bring it in, the mechanic can't find the problem, and I take it home again.

My next step will probably be to install a starter button that bypasses the ignition switch and the clutch sensor.

It's actually not the money that is the problem, it's the hassle and time lost managing the problem. I am not a car person, so this is not something that is "fun" to dig into.

CarloSW2

[user removed]

Originally Posted by cfg83

Hello -

I'm in the dark side of old car ownership right now. My car is in the shop with an intermittent starter gremlin right now. It's either the ignition cylinder (where the key goes), the clutch sensor, or the starter motor, or a wire in-between. Because the problem is intermittent, I bring it in, the mechanic can't find the problem, and I take it home again.

My next step will probably be to install a starter button that bypasses the ignition switch and the clutch sensor.

It's actually not the money that is the problem, it's the hassle and time lost managing the problem. I am not a car person, so this is not something that is "fun" to dig into.

CarloSW2

Have them install a bump starter of the type used for valve adjustments. Connects the battery to the starter and allows you to crank the engine remotely.

Then using some wire and a 12 volt light bulb, connect then in the starting circuit from ignition switch to the starter. When you get a no start condition the light will light up if you have current supplied. You can use the bump starter to start the engine, and the test circuit to find your bad connection.

These types of problems are why I either drive something very simple or fairly new.

I buy and rebuild salvage vehicles, close to 200 since 1973. My cost of driving was actually in the negative numbers for a considerable time, meaning I made money driving the ones I rebuilt, more than enough to pay for every penny of operating expense. I could even write the mileage off the profit since every car needed to be tested thoroughly before being sold. Generally that was 3000 miles on a fresh oil change, and it virtually eliminated any come backs from the buyers.

These days it looks like about 25 cents a mile for the car and much less for the bike which I bought for $800 with 1800 miles. Bike insurance is less than $100 per year, while the car is less than $400. 10 cents a mile for car fuel and 4.25 for the bike. Taxes on the car are a couple hundred a year and much less, probably about $20 per year on the bike. Overall the bike is probably about 8 cents a mile as long as I drive it enough. It will still be worth about what I paid for it if it runs and can be driven for the next 5-10 years.

regards
Mech

[cfg83]

Old Mechanic -

Thanks! I will print your post and take it to the mechanic.

I'm tempted to get one of these for my on-the-road fix-it kit :

Amazon.com: Lisle 20750 Remote Starter Switch: Automotive


CarloSW2

[user removed]

Just remember it will start in gear with the bump starter. since all safety systems are bypassed. Ignition on in park or neutral with the e-brake on to be safe. For Gods sake don't run over yourself or get hurt.

On the intermittent ignition problem. The bump starter should solve the problem of intermittent no starts.

I would check the ignition switch first. Locate the connection that powers up when you are cranking the car. Hook the test light (with bulb) so you can see it when you crank the car. If the test light fails to crank when the car does not start then you know it is either a bad ignition switch or intermittent power to the ignition switch, which would (more than likely) mean everything else would not work, that is turned on by the ignition switch.

If you get the no start but the light comes on, then move the power lead to a point further in the circuit and see if the light comes on when the car does not start, at the point where the light no longer comes on you have found the point where you are loosing power for ignition. Keep a log and mark every point as you progress.

Intermittent electrical problems can be especially frustrating and difficult to diagnose. As long as you know the circuit you are dealing with they can be located and fixed, especially when you can bypass the problem and keep your car on the road.

regards
Mech

[cfg83]

Old Mechanic -

Yes, thanks again. My goal with the bump starter is to make it so that if I get stranded, *after* I do the diagnosis you are suggesting, I will use the bump starter + safety precautions to get going again. I am typically 25+ miles from home at any one location during the week, so I am pretty much on my own when this problem happens.

I just spoke with my mechanic. I have gotten over 200K miles out of the original starter, so I told him to install a new one. Sooooooo, my car is getting a present. It probably is the ignition switch, so that will be next on the list if/when the problem happens again.

CarloSW2

[2000_HX_Civic]

Getting a new car most often is about ones EGO, as in to say:

I've made it,
I worth it,
I deserve it,
I'm compensating for my inadequacies
or even better the need to just buy stuff which WE ALL have.

Americans are most known for being CONSUMERS,

not hard working,
ethical,
dependent,
loyal,
smart (HAHA),
or anything else but consumers and our purchases are almost always not out of necessity. Not to mention that more then 33% of what you buy is thrown out instantly. I speaking of the packaging.

Look around as you drive, in my home town, I'm driving the oldest crappiest looking car I see most every day.

I had a flawless 98' Buick Regal GS loaded with every option, it was a kings car (literally Regal), but the mpg sucked. I paid $2800 for my Hx meaning it'll take just about 2 years to have the car pay for it's self.

The Buick got 19 MPG

The Hx is currently at 36.

Lastly, as Zonker stated keeping your old car is the green thing to do.

Unless it's a Nissan leaf

[honestabe]

Thanks to this thread I just created a new Excel spreadsheet that includes all my expenses to date for the ownership of my Geo Metro. This includes the purchase price, insurance, registration, fuel, and maintenance. After crunching the numbers (some numbers were estimated since I don't have the receipts), my first 29,000 miles have cost me $0.1575 per mile. Not bad really considering gas is $1880 and I paid $1300 for the car. I've spent about $1386 on FE upgrades and repairs and maintenance. That includes new tires, 6 oil changes, a new passenger side axle, new trans axle seal, and 2 trans fluid changes. If you look at actual maintenance and repairs, I've only spent $632 in the first 29,000 miles of ownership. I'll be changing my timing belt shortly. And in the next 6 months probably have to rebuild the motor and will be upgrading the head in the process to make it better and more fuel efficient.