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Old 02-28-2021, 09:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Why would anyone be willing to add more COČ than what an EGR already does?

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Old 02-28-2021, 10:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by some_other_dave View Post
Umm, how do you propose to remove all nitrogen from the air going into the engine? N2 is roughly 70% of what goes into the engine to start with. Even after adding hydrocarbons and then combusting them, you'll still have around 70% of it is nitrogen of one form or another, mostly N2.

Just routing exhaust gas (cooled or not) into the intake won't substantially change the amount of N2 going through the system, since you'll be displacing 70% N2 air with 70% N2 exhaust.

If you could eliminate NOx, that would enable lean mixtures for good fuel economy. But it's hard to see how this would accomplish it.

-soD
It is possible to separate polar/magnetic/charged substances in air from non polar ones with a charged stack of sorts. (Albeit not 100% effective)

One would need to question if the power draw to divide CO, CO2 and NOx (along with reactive compounds and h2o from the remaining exhaust would be excessive, ignoring the obvious cost and weight of equipment and potential to clog it with soot. The “polar” compounds could then be reintroduced to the intake stream.

Without a way to separate CO2 from the rest you would choke out the engine
Being polar and charged there may be a means to separate the NOx from uncharged materials like CO2, would have to think about it, NOx should be attracted more to a HV charged plate than CO2, not sure how that could be leveraged effectively.

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Old 02-28-2021, 11:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Why would anyone be willing to add more COČ than what an EGR already does?
My idea was to completely replace nitrogen based air with CO2 in order to completely eliminate NOx emissions.

The idea goes like this.
  1. Feed CO2 (and water vapor) into the intake.
  2. Add oxygen and fuel. (The hard part is getting pure oxygen efficiently to make up about 20% of the mix)
  3. Burn in a traditional gasoline or diesel style combustion cycle.
  4. Take exhaust and cool it, remove liquid water.
  5. Feed cooled exhaust (now mostly CO2 and water vapor) back into the intake for an unlimited supply of CO2.

The theoretical result being able to run as high CR, lean bien, timing advance, etc, as possible without having to worry about NOx emissions.
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Old 03-01-2021, 06:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
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High levels of oxygen can cause otherwise inflammable materials to spontaneously ignite.

CO2 chokes (retards) the flame in relatively small amounts , the two together would ???
There would need to be some happy medium

In effect you are building a rocket or welder the two gases are moderately expensive and onboard production would be $$$ and heavy, likely power intensive as welll.


That said because people are considered too incompetent to fill a water bottle on a car engineers are working on recovering water from exhaust to direct inject at various points during combustion to improve fuel economy and emissions.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs...68087420933124

https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...-20101015.html
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I think a lot aren't getting my idea.

Air is about 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen.

The goal here would be to make an system that supplies 80% CO2 and 20% O2. The CO2 is an inert gas, just as nitrogen is an inert gas. The goal is NOT to make a highly oxygen enriched intake charge. The goal is NOT to make an extremely low oxygen level intake charge. Just keep it at 20% along with 80% inert gases like CO2.

CO2 is not hard to produce in an internal combustion engine. It's free. It's the product of burning hydrocarbons with oxygen. So is water. So the engine will continuously be supplying more than enough CO2 and water than we'll ever need. The main disadvantage is that it would require substantially more cooling.

The O2 would be the hard stuff to produce. O2 air separators are expensive, and require substantial power. But just like anything, this would start out first as an experiment. The question is, could the benefits of not having to deal with NOx outweigh the efficiency penalty of separating O2 out of the air. If that could be established, then the question becomes if cost can be reduced enough to make it feasible for mass production.
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
The goal here would be to make an system that supplies 80% CO2 and 20% O2. The CO2 is an inert gas, just as nitrogen is an inert gas. The goal is NOT to make a highly oxygen enriched intake charge. The goal is NOT to make an extremely low oxygen level intake charge. Just keep it at 20% along with 80% inert gases like CO2.

CO2 is not hard to produce in an internal combustion engine. It's free. It's the product of burning hydrocarbons with oxygen. So is water. So the engine will continuously be supplying more than enough CO2 and water than we'll ever need. The main disadvantage is that it would require substantially more cooling.
Would be quite interesting if you could insert the purified OČ inside the cabin and recover the COČ from it.


Quote:
The O2 would be the hard stuff to produce. O2 air separators are expensive, and require substantial power. But just like anything, this would start out first as an experiment. The question is, could the benefits of not having to deal with NOx outweigh the efficiency penalty of separating O2 out of the air.
Considering it would probably require more energy than any increase it could lead the engine output to have, it might be as hard to justify as those HHO generators.

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