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Old 05-07-2018, 06:50 PM   #3231 (permalink)
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Holy cow I missed a lot! Fortunately, I am now unemployed, and can check here more often. haha.

For thingstodo:
You have to pretend that you are from the matrix... Remember how they see the random numbers and see all sorts of events happening? 200010220 20202020 "oh no! Neo is fighting the bad guys"

When you do run-pi-test2, what you want to see is convergence toward 0. It should start at around 512, and quickly fall to 0. It won't really fall to exactly zero. So, something like this when you type run-pi-test2:
512, 512, 460, 440, 430, ..., 100, 50, -50, 60, 0, -40, .....

The rate of convergence depends on the specific motor. For big motors it usually converges really fast (like in 10 or 20 iterations). For small ones maybe in 40 or 50 or something iterations? I've seen it as slow as 90 before.

If it converges to zero, (but bounces around zero), you are good. If it goes too negative, and then comes back, then you need to reduce your Kp and Ki. It's a little too agressive and wild. Also, make sure Kp is around 60*Ki, whatever you are using for Ki.

Reversing polarity of the B+ and b- could be very bad. That's a dead short across 2 diodes inside the IGBTs. Now, those big diodes can handle 600 amp each, and you have 3, so that's 1800amp that the IGBTs could handle. I bet the 58v battery pack wasn't able to deliver that. Was there a fuse that could have blown so that the precharge can still do its thing, but the main contactor can't?

The software is very similar to what it was before. You sholdn'thave to use different numbers for your motor.

wootwootman: don't bother with run-pi-test. Just do run-pi-test2. Human eyes on the data is better than the sad amount of intelligence I tried to bestow upon the little microcontroller, which is basically a computer from 1975.

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Old 05-07-2018, 08:33 PM   #3232 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes View Post
Holy cow I missed a lot! Fortunately, I am now unemployed, and can check here more often. haha.
Too bad! Their loss.

Quote:
For thingstodo:
You have to pretend that you are from the matrix... Remember how they see the random numbers and see all sorts of events happening? 200010220 20202020 "oh no! Neo is fighting the bad guys"

When you do run-pi-test2, what you want to see is convergence toward 0. It should start at around 512, and quickly fall to 0. It won't really fall to exactly zero. So, something like this when you type run-pi-test2:
512, 512, 460, 440, 430, ..., 100, 50, -50, 60, 0, -40, .....
OK. What happens if it does not go below 450 and then goes back up again? Do I need to set something and try again?

Quote:
The rate of convergence depends on the specific motor. For big motors it usually converges really fast (like in 10 or 20 iterations). For small ones maybe in 40 or 50 or something iterations? I've seen it as slow as 90 before.
With run-pi-test on the older firmware, the motor chirped for an hour and a half or so, then it gave up and told me that it was not converging.

Quote:
If it converges to zero, (but bounces around zero), you are good. If it goes too negative, and then comes back, then you need to reduce your Kp and Ki. It's a little too agressive and wild. Also, make sure Kp is around 60*Ki, whatever you are using for Ki.
Right now I'm using defaults, whatever they are. So if it does not converge ... which way do I go?

Quote:
Reversing polarity of the B+ and b- could be very bad. That's a dead short across 2 diodes inside the IGBTs. Now, those big diodes can handle 600 amp each, and you have 3, so that's 1800amp that the IGBTs could handle. I bet the 58v battery pack wasn't able to deliver that. Was there a fuse that could have blown so that the precharge can still do its thing, but the main contactor can't?
The battery pack did not blow it's 80 amp fuse. The power board was charged up to pack voltage, just backward. I didn't notice and did a run-pi-test ... and nothing happened.. at all.

Quote:
The software is very similar to what it was before. You sholdn'thave to use different numbers for your motor.
OK - so the motor sorta turned - last night, video when I get it edited - with the numbers I had from the siemens AC motor. But I'm at a lower voltage, and the motor is *MUCH* less powerful.

As for being unemployed, a couple of guys on the Polaris forum are drooling over the numbers on your controller. These guys are gear heads and always want more power, more speed...

I know that the ring cap is expensive, and I expect that lower voltage on the IGBTs would be less expensive ... maybe some components could be changed and it could be priced as an upgrade to the Polaris Ranger line of EVs. The SEVCON controller that is used now is MOSFET based and has issues with cooling. 650A max and it has issues going up long inclines even if they are not very steep. It also has some issues with specific frequencies (hesitates and kinda stutters) when loaded and going up hill.

The big pain would be that most of these things are lead acid so there is not a lot of room for the controller .. and there is a 40ish pin connector to interface to. All the signals you need are there .. I've mapped most of them out.

There is a high/medium/low switch on the dash for max speed, max range, and hauling respectively. 4wd 2wd turf mode is handled by the VCIM and involves solenoids on the differentials front and back. There is also a Forward/neutral/Reverse switch, an indicator above the manual steering for F, N, R, Brake, and a wrench problem light.

The throttle is a dual hall effect, one signal 2x the other signal. I have the voltages mapped. There is no signal from the brake - which is silly. There is a pressure switch which runs the brake lights and adding a pressure transducer would be straight forward, with 0 - 5V for braking to give regen.

Just me running off at the mouth! But seriously, I could use some help with this project!
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:46 PM   #3233 (permalink)
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What are the specs of this motor? Like, the full load current, and the voltage it's designed to run at (AC voltage), the number of pole pairs (if the nameplate says around 3500 at 60Hz, it's 1 pole pair, 1800 means 2 pole pairs, etc...). Do you have 3 Lem Hass 300-s current sensors in the controller? You will have to change that to the following:

current-sensor-amps-per-volt 480

(it's set to 80 right now, which is for the LEM Hass 50-s).

The rotor time constant may be way off too. But we can figure that one out after getting the PI to converge.


I still feel concerned that the IGBTs didn't do anything weird with the voltage reversed on the IGBTs. That is a dead short circuit with nothing but 2 diodes to slow it down. I wonder if it's possible that the diodes failed opened inside the IGBTs. Could you test with a diode meter thing from B- to B+? Or B- to the phase, and from phase to B+?
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:24 AM   #3234 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes View Post
What are the specs of this motor? Like, the full load current, and the voltage it's designed to run at (AC voltage), the number of pole pairs (if the nameplate says around 3500 at 60Hz, it's 1 pole pair, 1800 means 2 pole pairs, etc...).
German motor - ABM

Connected in delta, 215A continous (rated?)

6400 rpm at 219 Hz. That gives me 1753 rpm at 60 hz, so I think it is 4 pole.

It's fed with a 48V pack, which is 52V when fully charged. 36VAC? But the nameplate says 29 VAC. Does not compute.

Power factor 0.88

64 pulses per revolution is the encoder

Quote:
Do you have 3 Lem Hass 300-s current sensors in the controller? You will have to change that to the following:

current-sensor-amps-per-volt 480

(it's set to 80 right now, which is for the LEM Hass 50-s).
OK. I can do that. Tomorrow I should have some time in the evening.

Quote:
The rotor time constant may be way off too. But we can figure that one out after getting the PI to converge.


I still feel concerned that the IGBTs didn't do anything weird with the voltage reversed on the IGBTs. That is a dead short circuit with nothing but 2 diodes to slow it down. I wonder if it's possible that the diodes failed opened inside the IGBTs. Could you test with a diode meter thing from B- to B+? Or B- to the phase, and from phase to B+?
Diode meter:
B- to B+: The voltage starts at 0.3 and rises. With black on B- and Red on B+. It rises above 0.7 and keeps rising. If I reverse the leads, the voltage drops to 0 and then rises again, like I'm charging a capacitor ... and I am.

B- to U, B- to V, B- to W. Black to U,V,W, Red to B-. All give 0.304

V to B+, U to B+, W to B+. Black to B+, Red to U, V, W. All give 0.304

If I put Red to B+ and Black to U,V,W the capacitor charges.

If I put Black to B- and Red to U,V,W the capacitor charges.
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Old 05-08-2018, 05:04 PM   #3235 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes View Post
wootwootman: don't bother with run-pi-test. Just do run-pi-test2. Human eyes on the data is better than the sad amount of intelligence I tried to bestow upon the little microcontroller, which is basically a computer from 1975.
Thanks Paul, I'll go ahead and do that. I've got some battery stuff to take care of before I can power on the motor for testing though.

I'll start with 'run-angle-offset-test' from 0-511 to get the best value, after which I'll try 'run-pi-test2'. Currently my configs are kp=5000 ki=80 and pi-ratio=62. This second pi test doesn't use the pi-ratio variable, so I'll stick to varying kp and ki proportionately. Maye one day I'll plot the output and fine tune them.

I also saw that line 1991 in ACController.c mentions something about 75A for a LEM Hass 300-s (I'm using a 200 equivalent). If I've got my max-battery-amps and max-motor-amps below 75, will this still let the test/motor function properly or should I raise those limits?

Last edited by wootwootman; 05-09-2018 at 01:57 AM..
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:47 PM   #3236 (permalink)
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Actually, do the run-pi-test2 first. That is a locked rotor test (but you don't have to lock the rotor). It doesn't require knowledge of the rotor flux angle, so you don't need the angle offset for it.

Once you get good convergence, then move to finding the angle offset. I would suggest on that one, do the following

angle-offset 0
// then give it a little throttle
angle-offset 16
// then give it a little throttle
angle-offset 32
// then give it a little throttle
...
and when it hits the zone where there is no movement from the throttle, add 128 to that, and that's the ideal angle offset. You can also subtract 128 instead, if you want the default rotation to go the other way.

then, type:

save

and hurray, you are done. drive into the sunset.

The LEM Hass 200-s is fine. It just means you will need to have

current-sensor-amps-per-volt 320
save

You can use any current you want from 0 to about 400 then, because 400 will be where the hardware overcurrent trip point is.
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:22 AM   #3237 (permalink)
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Update may 9

I checked the config of the controller config

motor-type=3
kp=03333 ki=00050
current-sensor-amps-per-volt=0080
max-regen-position=0042
min-regen-position=0339
min-throttle-position=0539
max-throttle-position=0837
fault-throttle-position=0005
max-battery-amps=0015 amps
max-battery-amps-regen=0015 amps
max-motor-amps=025 amps
max-motor-amps-regen=025 amps
precharge-time=0050 tenths of a sec
angle-offset=119
saliency=0000
pole-pairs=004
max-rpm=06000 rev/min
throttle-type=0
encoder-ticks=0256 ticks/rev
pi-ratio=062
raw-throttle=0501

Change current-sensor-amps-per-volt to 480

stream log data and check the throttle signal, adjust scaling of throttle signal, motor amps, pack amps

range is 1018 at 1k, 80 at 999k
max-regen-position=0100
min-regen-position=0450
min-throttle-position=0550
max-throttle-position=0900
max-battery-amps=0100 amps
max-battery-amps-regen=0015 amps
max-motor-amps=200 amps
max-motor-amps-regen=050 amps

The settings were saved.

run-pi-test2 was run at the following settings. See attached raw log file. None of the settings appear to change much, whether there is power on the DC bus or not, whether the kp and ki are large or small.

I see no convergence at all. Perhaps the IGBTs were damaged after all. BUT - with the old firmware and the settings from my siemens motor I got the motor to run (poorly) but it rotated!

kp=03333 ki=00050
kp=06666 ki=00100
kp=13333 ki=00200
kp=01666 ki=00025
kp=00888 ki=00012
kp=30000 ki=00600
kp=04000 ki=00064

Then I tried running the controller and there appears to be no AC output phase to phase, phase to B+, Phase to B-. Something like 0 - 0.7V but it is not consistent. It should be consistent. I didn't think to check the phase current to see if there was current flow into the motor.
Attached Files
File Type: zip 18may09_1.zip (8.3 KB, 10 views)
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:39 AM   #3238 (permalink)
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Also, don't forget

pole-pairs 2
motor-type 1
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Old 05-10-2018, 03:13 AM   #3239 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes View Post
Also, don't forget

pole-pairs 2
motor-type 1
Also how does PI ratio apply here. Does it have to be 62? What happens if i change it? Do i have to change Ki and Kp too?

I noticed this with my ACIM motor in my car. With PI ratio 62 i could just get the car in garage and back. Initial pulse was strong, but then it ran out of steam and crawled. Minor changes to PI ratio didnt solve this. I used your AI test to determine PI. But rotor constant i had to set manually and probably failed miserably... I remember i had it at 32.

I also noticed Leaf PM motor with ABZ encoder runs much better in mode 3 than in mode 2. Why would that be if the signals are essentialy the same ABZ regardless of resolver ADC interface board.



A
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Old 05-10-2018, 09:51 AM   #3240 (permalink)
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Also, don't forget

pole-pairs 2
motor-type 1
Right - forgot about that.

That will happen tonight.

What about the PI ratio, as @arber333 asked? Do I need to mess with that? Or the rotor constant?

I'm still wondering if I killed or damaged the IGBTs. But I saw the motor turn, under power, after that ...

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