Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2013, 12:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
PSmodder lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chino
Posts: 1,605
Thanks: 26
Thanked 908 Times in 522 Posts
Perhaps the Honda Insight needs more aero-stability...

...but the great (Hasport Hondata w/ 2L supercharged Rotrex K20 w/ 500hp) construction quality of whole-body cage and safety equipment worked. The driver escaped with relatively minor injuries (collapsed lung) considering the violence of the crash. Slow motion of 13 1/2 200-mph barrel rolls and endos.

Example why downforce is good; your friend and angel.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to botsapper For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-23-2013)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-20-2013, 01:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Posts: 612

Jimmy - '00 GMC Jimmy SLT
90 day: 21.18 mpg (US)

The White Gnat - '99 Suzuki Swift
Team Suzuki
90 day: 51.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 240
Thanked 114 Times in 90 Posts
Yeah, I notice the insight is not low & flat, but rather high & narrow. That didn't help once the roll started.

Also, the aerodynamics for optimizing minimum drag at "regular" speeds probably aren't the best for high speed stability. Getting both at the same time is quite a trick, and I'm sure the design of the Insight was at least 90% for low drag at regular speed, and less than 10% for "high speed stability".

Using that body design for a landspeed attempt makes sense from the standpoint of low drag, but in this case, at least, the high speed stability thing bit him in the ass.....

There's another video out there of a 2nd generation Mazda RX-7 at Bonneville doing much the same thing, but at 210 mph. Same deal - pretty low drag car, but too much lift/instability at high speeds........
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 01:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
Cd
Ultimate Fail
 
Cd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,585
Thanks: 2,872
Thanked 1,121 Times in 679 Posts
That'll buff out .
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cd For This Useful Post:
user removed (11-20-2013)
Old 11-20-2013, 02:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,594

RippinRoo - '05 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5 GT
Subaru
90 day: 21.16 mpg (US)

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
Diesel
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

Olga - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon
90 day: 46.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 303
Thanked 311 Times in 186 Posts
The little trip rails on the roof maybe should've been taller?

Must've been a wild ride... wonder if there's any in-car footage.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 03:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Posts: 612

Jimmy - '00 GMC Jimmy SLT
90 day: 21.18 mpg (US)

The White Gnat - '99 Suzuki Swift
Team Suzuki
90 day: 51.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 240
Thanked 114 Times in 90 Posts
It doesn't look to me like it's an issue of aerodynamic lift, but simply the wheels digging into the ground enough to "trip" it & start it rolling.

If my understanding's right, instead of rolling when sideways, it would have lifted up off the ground first, once sideways. I don't see any lifting in that video - just rolling. If you can find the video of that RX-7 at Bonneville, I think that one lifed off, THEN did the somersaults, etc.

EDIT: Just remembered, I think the rules actually specify 3/4" high. That's another thing I thought was odd - not 1/2", not 7/8", but 3/4".
__________________


Last edited by wmjinman; 11-20-2013 at 03:05 AM.. Reason: Thought of something else
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 06:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmjinman View Post
It doesn't look to me like it's an issue of aerodynamic lift, but simply the wheels digging into the ground enough to "trip" it & start it rolling.
When the arse lifts up, the nose digs in, it's a lever.

People mock rear wings on FWD cars all the time, but if balanced up with the front down-force they can play a role in high speed handling/safety.

Maybe this old Lambo below holds a clue.

Lamborghini Countach - Front Spoiler - Red - Front Angle
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 11-21-2013 at 10:26 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 01:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 142

Cinco The Miata - '90 Mazda Miata
Team Mazda
Sports Cars
90 day: 36.13 mpg (US)

Oscar Wilde - '02 Honda Metropolitan
Motorcycle
90 day: 94.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 27 Times in 20 Posts


This time attach Scion has seen some success too with it's front wing.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
Spaced out...
 
spacemanspif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dirty Jersey
Posts: 748

The New Focus - '07 Ford Focus ZX5
90 day: 32.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 142
Thanked 205 Times in 149 Posts
Is that Insight front drive or converted to rear wheel drive? It almost looks like the front tires had too much bite and the back end drove around the front.

That Scion pic above is front wheel drive and needed that front wing to keep as much pressure on the tires through turns. If I remember correctly it was having a lot of trouble starting into the turns (under steer?)
__________________
-Mike

2007 Ford Focus ZX5 - 91k - SGII, pending upper and lower grill bocks - auto trans
1987 Monte Carlo SS - 5.3/4L80E swap - 13.67 @ 106
2007 Ford Focus Estate - 230k - 33mpg - Retired 4/2018
1995 Saturn SL2 - 256K miles - 44mpg - Retired 9/2014

Cost to Operate Spreadsheet for "The New Focus"

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
PSmodder lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chino
Posts: 1,605
Thanks: 26
Thanked 908 Times in 522 Posts
The other +200-mph Honda with much better aero...

A new speed record, 238.22 mph from a Hondata CRX. H/Blown Fuel Comp Coupe class. An allowed altered nose but no change on the width or 'contour' (as in the rule book).

http://www.hondata.com/images/bonnev..._full_size.jpg


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to botsapper For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-23-2013)
Old 11-20-2013, 10:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Posts: 612

Jimmy - '00 GMC Jimmy SLT
90 day: 21.18 mpg (US)

The White Gnat - '99 Suzuki Swift
Team Suzuki
90 day: 51.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 240
Thanked 114 Times in 90 Posts
One thing I didn't really take into consideration in my previous remarks is that there might have been some lift or aerodynamic instability that CAUSED the skid to start. So even though I don't think the roll was a result of the roof rails failing to spoil lift while the car was sideways, the whole thing may have started from some aero problem - - - - or something else. That stuff isn't always the easiest thing to figure out...

__________________

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com