Prius C / Yaris Hybrid

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by sendler

Fuelly IS probably slightly skewed from what the total population of any car really gets. I get that complaint all the time when I quote Fuelly on motorcycle forums.
They always say things like: "Anyone that takes the time to log fuel economy cares more and is trying to get a better number." and " If they get a bad fill up they will just throw that one out." So yeah, Fuelly data may be slightly high. Oh, Wait! A percent too high.

Mocking me, are you? But you are missing the point I make.
People who buy small cars often use them for short trips, that skews the data more than anything.

There can be a number of reasons why people log their fuel consumption. Some may skew it - but who wants to fool himself?
Fuelly does not seem to be a hangout for the eco minded, esp. when you compare the averages to the fuel logs on EM.

Anyway, you buy the car that fits your needs and if those are mainly short trips in town, you do best buying something small. Which gets worse than EPA city average because of all the short cold start trips.
Maintaining a fuel log does not change the reason you got that car.

So that was what I think, based on what I expect is really happening.

If you buy a Yaris Hybrid or 2014 Fit Hybrid and replicate the Japanese test cycle with it for your commute, no doubt you'll get over 80 mpg.
If you use it for just the school run and the groceries, expect less than 40 mpg.
If you just do long high speed trips on the motorway you'd probably choose something else.

[sendler]

Just trying to keep the conversation straight. People could be reading your hype and get the totally wrong idea.
.
Apparently no one out of competition comes close to the Japan test cycle as is shown to be true on Fuelly and Spirit Monitor. The USA sticker for the Prius C is 50. A huge sample of real user's in many different countries are showing 51 mpgUS. Perfect bell curve.
.
By comparing the only data we have, the Japan test cycle for each car, the Fit hybrid can be expected to beat the Prius C by a few percent. Only. Which is a good accomplishment considering it will be bigger and better equipped than the spartan Toyota. Now we have to see what the comparative pricing will be.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by sendler

Just trying to keep the conversation straight. People could be reading your hype and get the totally wrong idea.
.
Apparently no one out of competition comes close to the Japan test cycle as is shown to be true on Fuelly and Spirit Monitor. The USA sticker for the Prius C is 50. A huge sample of real user's in many different countries are showing 51 mpgUS. Perfect bell curve.
.
By comparing the only data we have, the Japan test cycle for each car, the Fit hybrid can be expected to beat the Prius C by a few percent. Only. Which is a good accomplishment considering it will be bigger and better equipped than the spartan Toyota. Now we have to see what the comparative pricing will be.

It is not my hype - blame Honda, Toyota, etc - but agreed.

That said, the EPA ratings are not really set high.
I never had a tank below EPA despite some sometimes very adverse conditions.

With a year in I barely equal the European FE rating over that year. Conditions were not optimal, but I did a lot to compensate for that and yet can't beat it consistently; would need a longer commute and less wind. A good south-western storm can double my consumption.

So - EPA ratings give a reasonable estimate of what most people can expect under 'normal' conditions.
The European & Japanese ratings show what it can do under ideal conditions. That is pretty accurate for my use, trying to hypermile and all: a challenge to meet, an achievement to pass it.
Unfair? Sure. Useful? For me it is.
What rating suits you best depends on how you drive.

I don't expect a Fit Hybrid would yield me 86 mpg just like that, but I sure would like to try. With gas prices at about $9 a gallon over here (more than 60% tax...!) I wonder why these cars don't get more attention.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by sendler

Apparently no one out of competition comes close to the Japan test cycle as is shown to be true on Fuelly and Spirit Monitor.

From a quick look, though, I think Fuelly may be a rather biased sample. Out of 86 1st Gen Insights, only 7 get 70 mpg or better. I've averaged over 71 mpg with mine, despite fairly difficult driving conditions, and not doing any serious hypermiling, just my usual smooth driving.

Results for my Toyota pickup are similar, though it's harder to do an apples-apples comparison. I'm on the high end of the curve, despite mine being a 4x4 and used for hauling & driving really rough mountain dirt.

Like I said, all that's needed to get EPA or better is an adjustment of the nut holding the steering wheel :-)

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by sendler

People could ... get the totally wrong idea

Right. I just edited my first post saying 86 mpg is according to the optimistic Japanese test cycle.

Where that claim may seem streched, what about that Peugeot 208 getting an 'officially recorded' 149 mpg?
Not a special design like VW's XL1 but an actual volume model, stripped down to just 780 and equipped with some fancy stuff like glassfiber beam springs and Le Mans racing parts.
Of course, if that ever goes on sale it will have mirrors again and a 12V battery, and probably a bigger radiator, etc. and no racing parts that cost more by themselves than a standard 208. But who knows - a real 100 mpg family car may see the light one day.

[sendler]

Don't get me wrong. I am a Honda fan through and through. I own an 01 Insight that I put 160,000 miles on. 220,000 total now. an 09 Fit with 80,000. 2011 CBR250R with 20,000. 2013 PCX150 with 9,000 miles. And use to have a 2000 Civic HX. The New Fit hybrid has some very exciting technology. Now that we have hashed through the expected fuel economy, You should start a clean thread for the new advanced Honda.

[Jyden]

Well - as I said before, I cant wait for the new fit, The Yaris is well proven tech, so I'll go for that.
I think - if all goes right - I'll order within the next month.

If / when I get it, i'll start a new thred and fuel log for the Yaris Hybrid for everyone to follow.

[RedDevil]

Do a thorough test drive before you order it, if you haven't already.
Especially the gearbox takes some getting used to, esp. on acceleration it feels like nothing is happening for the noise. The speedo will show otherwise. Some cannot get used to that.

As I'm focused on saving gas I keep the revs as low as possible on acceleration nowadays. Just the occasional busy T junction will wake the hamsters under the bonnet.

[Jyden]

I've testdriven it several times, and it no problem. We mostly drive on rural roads and city, not much highway.
We normally stay between 80 and 90 km/t whic seem to match nicely to the cars gearing.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Jyden

I've look at, and test driven the VW triplets. the Mii is best price here in Denmark, but they also have issues it seems. For me a cheaper investment - yes, but not same milage af the Yaris Hybrid. And btw both the triplets and the Yaris Hybrid run on ordinary 95 octane. So same fuel.

I didn't quite realise the CNG situation in Denmark is even worse than here

4 stations for a country that big isn't gonna work unless you live close to one of these CNG stations, or pass by one very often.

When looking for a new daily driver, I've been looking @ the Yaris Hybrid as well.
But it was more expensive than the VW up on CNG, and the Yaris HSD still used far more expensive petrol.