Prius versus G1 Insight

[Xist]

I have been wondering about the different hybrid systems. I am under the impression that the Insight is considered to have a more efficient system, but it does not do battery-only driving, so its city mileage suffers, while it has lean burn (and two catalytic converters, if I am correct), so its highway mileage is better, with fewer emissions.

Here is the information that I have found:

The Insight was the only one with an available manual transmission.
2,006 Insight: Two seats, 1,850 pounds, and 48/58.
2,006 Prius: Five seats, 2,890 pounds, and 48/45.
2,013 Prius c: Five seats, 2,500 pounds, and 53/46.

I find it curious that the c improves five MPG over the base in-city, but only one on the highway.

I was just wondering what a realistic ideal daily-driver would be.

A hybrid Kubota with a turbo?

[vskid3]

If you're going to compare the regular Prius to the Prius c, its only fair to use the 2013 ratings for both of them, which boosts the Prius to 51/48. The c has a smaller engine and weighs less, so better city mileage is kind of a given. The Prius does better on the highway because it is more aerodynamic.

[some_other_dave]

Correction: Lean burn makes for higher emissions, in particular higher NOx. That's because the lean mixture burns hotter, which produces extra nitrogen-oxygen compounds in the exhaust.

That's the main reason we don't have lean-burn cars running around today. (Except for diesels, which are a different kettle of fish.)

The 1st-gen Insight with an MT was rated, I believe, at 70 MPG highway in at least some versions. Though that was before the 2008 EPA "fudge factor", wasn't it?

Anyway, I'd say that the Insight would be the best commuter for mixed city/highway driving.

-soD

[Xist]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

Correction: Lean burn makes for higher emissions, in particular higher NOx. That's because the lean mixture burns hotter, which produces extra nitrogen-oxygen compounds in the exhaust.-soD

Negative.

The main drawback of lean burning is that a complex catalytic converter system is required to reduce NOx emissions. Lean burn engines do not work well with modern 3-way catalytic converter—which require a pollutant balance at the exhaust port so they can carry out oxidation and reduction reactions—so most modern engines run at or near the stoichiometric point.

Lean burn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The engine uses advanced lean-burn VTEC-E technology, low-friction design features and lightweight materials such as aluminum, magnesium and special plastics, in combination with a new lean-bum-compatible NOx catalyst, to achieve a new level of efficiency and low emissions in gasoline-engine technology.

2000-2006 Honda Insight - Top Speed

In order to prevent high NOx tailpipe emissions during lean burn operation, the Insight uses a dual catalyst system that includes an extra NOx storage/NOx reduction catalyst.

InsightCentral.net - Encyclopedia - Honda Insight Advance Catalyst System

So, nobody clarified my misunderstanding:

and two catalytic converters, if I am correct

Two catalysts sounds much better than two catalytic converters!

Insight owners, have some cake.

Eat it! Eat it and like it!

[Xist]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

The 1st-gen Insight with an MT was rated, I believe, at 70 MPG highway in at least some versions. Though that was before the 2008 EPA "fudge factor", wasn't it?

I used the EPA's current figure, directly from their website.

[user removed]

I would get the Prius C if I was in the market for a car. First gen Insights will have problems that most post 2004 Prius will not have anywhere near the problems. If you wanted the ultra high mileage of the manual Insight, you would need the mostly highway driving environment and you would probably spend a lot more than you would save in repairs on the Insight unless you could find one still convered by a warranty.

regards
Mech

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by Xist

Negative.

Funny, you say "negative" and then quote snippets of articles that say what I am saying. Lean burn produces higher NOx due to higher exhaust temps. The super-expensive catalysts can bring those numbers down to a level that was acceptable in 2000, but they cannot bring them down to levels that are currently acceptable at a price that is currently acceptable.

That's why no lean burn.



And I had posted in my own note that the numbers I was remembering (70 MPG) were from the old EPA ratings.

-soD

[Xist]

So, which has a better hybrid system, the Toyota or the Honda?

[RedDevil]

How about adding some new insight, like the 2013 Insight?
If we are comparing 2013 Toyotas why leave out the Honda... the FE of the modern Insight is not that bad, as I found out.

[Xist]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

How about adding some new insight, like the 2013 Insight?
If we are comparing 2013 Toyotas why leave out the Honda... the FE of the modern Insight is not that bad, as I found out.

Not that bad?

New cars are not relevant for many of us and the technology does not seem the slightest bit better.