Questions about Subaru, first post, loooong reaD

[orangustang]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

It's not that heavy for a Subaru, but it is quite heavy for a mid size car.

No, it's really not. It's about the same as a Maxima of the same year or a base model Accord wagon, and it meets that standard with AWD and all of the basics including PW and PL standard. By the standards of many on here running Civics, Saturns, and Metros, yeah, it's a heavy car, but it's actually a light vehicle for its size.

OP- As others have mentioned, the AWD is basically permanent and pretty nearly indestructible. It is possible to remove components and convert it to FWD operation. I had a neighbor growing up who had a FWD '95 Legacy. It had been a program car of some sort, and it was that way from the factory, so it certainly can be done reliably. But it's probably not worth it to take the driveshaft, rear diff, and axles out just to gain a little bit of MPG for the summer and have to put it all back for snow driving.

Bump starting never caused any trouble for me when I had an Outback. I wasn't doing a whole lot of hypermiling back then, but there was a long hill on my way home that was perfect for EOC, so I used that technique a fair amount. The engine and transmission worked great until I totaled the car around 200k miles.

[orangustang]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

curb weight is more like 3500 pounds.

3155 lbs. I was slightly off, it's about 100 lbs. more than I thought. So, along the lines of a Maxima with auto trans and slightly lighter than an Accord EX wagon.

1998 Subaru Legacy Specifications

[ProDarwin]

My bad, I was looking at the Brighton, not the Outback. 3155 still isn't terrible for an AWD wagon.

We recently had a lightweight wagon thread on GRM, and could only name 6 wagons under 2750lbs made after 1990. Only 3 under 2500.

[brucey]

The 2WD fuse doesn't do anything as far as mileage for the automatics. You also can't coast with the engine off as the center differential will melt quickly. It's not a problem in the manuals, however.

My old test with the FWD fuse:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...awd-10755.html

[pete c]

What ever it is that the subie weighs, it would weigh considerably less if it lost half of it's drivetrain. I would think that the transfer case, drive shaft and rear end must add a minimum of 100 lbs. I would think the actual number is more around 200.

[grinderdust]

Wow, Thanks everyone. A lot of help here. I think some of these questions would draw a blank over at the Subaru forums. Most people just don't even get what I'm talking about! Sooo...I figured it would be ok to coast with the engine off. It is a manual after all. As for curb weight I've done a few simple things to reduce it. Since I use it for cargo it may be a moot point but, the rear seats are on wing bolts so I can have those out in 3. I deleted the roof rack and put some clear lexan over the goofy inset fog lights, I use an upper grill block in winter. I would like to find a plain hood but for now my scoop is covered. My hood weighs more than me so, do you think it is safe to cut it down to a single layer of sheet metal? It's pretty thick so I think it will hold up. I have the 2.5 engine and I have had no problem with head gaskets at 140,000. It seems that I keep my radiator cleaner on the outside than most and I never Idle so, along with A/C delete that solves most cooling system probs. I live around big hills so you have to know the limits of any vehicle lest it or you die fast. Car runs good actually. Best mileage and curb weight you can get on a car that will pull 5 people,luggage and a loaded trailer over an icy mountain at 70 mph. (this is hypermiling because of the amount of work done by a single vehicle) I wonder if my Honda Accord wagon from 1992 was on that list of wagons under 2700 curb weight? Also a very,very good car. Almost the best hypermiler I've owned but I think my little 81 accord fastback took the cake. I need a wagon for a lot of reasons so my choices are limited. What I would really like to do is use that extra output shaft on the center diff to put a motor on and make a hybrid out of this car somehow. What a sleeper it would be with about 50 extra horses on tap and the ability to regenerate while coasting :P Any recommenndations on a suitable motor for cheep?

[orangustang]

Warning: Heavy brainstorms ahead.

I always thought it seemed like a good idea to have a FWD gas car with an electric motor driving the rear wheels and doing some regenerative braking. It's probably beyond the scope of what you want to do with this car, but I would like to, someday, find a Legacy rolling chassis, put a native FWD (transverse-mounted) drivetrain under the hood, and do exactly what you're talking about with the rear wheels. That would do away with the additional drivetrain losses of RWD over FWD (from changing the plane of rotation), retain AWD functionality, and gain the advantage of a light hybrid system. I would only do a small cell due to weight concerns, just to help out under load, recover some lost braking energy, and maybe get it up to idle in 3rd gear from a stop before kicking the engine in. If you're clever, you can probably fit the whole setup under the rear floorboard and above your eventual ideal bellypan, so you don't sacrifice aerodynamics or cargo capacity.

I'm not sure what motor to use, or even where to start looking, as I've never done an extreme drivetrain surgery like that, but you might have more room to play with if you turn the differential around and mount the motor behind it. You might have to sacrifice the spare tire area, but you could avoid having anything enter the actual cabin. Thanks to the brilliant symmetry of that drivetrain, the diff reversal shouldn't even require any body modifications. Just remove it, turn it around, and reinstall it. Might help, might not. At least you have that option to play around with.

[grinderdust]

Good idea with the spare tire area orangustang. Space is def. at a premium on this car. I was planning to leave the awd intact at this point because there doesn't seem to be a way to control the speed of the rear output shaft on the center diff. Adding a motor in the spare well and getting it to power to the rear diff input seems feasible though. The rear diff is mounted solid to the chassis unlike a truck and has a nice 4 bolt input flange Does anyone know if there is enough sliding room in the rear driveshaft to allow bolting in a pulley say an inch thick without shortening it? Now...where to find the right motor?

[grinderdust]

BTW...still looking for a hillbilly way to get rid of the rich burn bump start problem. Scanguage is nice but I would like to save money. Would a fuel pump cutoff be possible? Any suggestions for wiring?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by pete c

I wonder if they will go back to FWD models of their current AWD platforms.

Seems like it would make sense in the brutally competitive midsize sedan market.

Seems you have answered the question already. The sedan market is brutally competitive, so why would Subaru offer their own flavor of what is already offered by everyone else? You might as well ask why Jeep isn't entering the FWD sedan market. There are already cars there; lots of 'em.

Subaru has built their reputaiton and distinguished themselves by having AWD cars. Their AWD cars are darn good for those who need them, or those who buy into the marketing idea that they are safe.

I don't think Subaru needs a different strategy, and I certainly wouldn't confuse customers by offering 95% of vehicles in AWD, but some in other configurations.