RCPlayland here.

[libertyfrancis1]

RCPlayland i dont have exact experience with a diesel conversion but i have done plenty of research...

The cummins engines while great for power and torque seem to rarely yeild good fuel economy due to their size and more so their WEIGHT!!! even the 4bt 4cylinder is said to be 1100 lbs!

my recommendation if any attempt at all would be something like the isuzu box truck engine and transmission they offer 1700cc and 2000cc engines which should do much better on fuel

depending on your local county emissions regulations they may throw a big fuss about diesel in a car who's vin code decodes as gasoline.

[RCPlayland]

Thank you for the info libertyfrancis1!

I did not realize that about the cummins. I have heard and read about the 4tb conversions.

It makes sense now why they would still at best only get about 35-40mpg.

Have you heard of anyone trying to import a overseas motor to be swapped in one of the US made trucks. Like the colorado? I know they make a diesel version overseas, but can't find any info on if it would be worth it/possible to do.

Iowa and Nebraska are pretty relaxed on emissions.

As pointed out earlier, I probably will have to resort to a older model truck. I have heard though that some are hard or impossible to get parts for. I don't mind putting in the wrench time or fabrication. I don't want to be fabricating most of the parts it would need.

I really need to pm Diesel Dave and pick his brain. First I need to read his posts though so I am not asking questions he has already answered. lol.

[libertyfrancis1]

For the 4bt swaps i would be shocked to see anything over 30mpg in a truck / suv chassis in normal driving conditions. If small cars with 1.6L diesels only do 50mpg EPA specs. Just something to consider i know some guys get big numbers but these are not apples to apples if they drive 34mph everywhere that would suck!

As for engine resources here are some i know of:
This is a local resource for people in the Dallas area but they do ship engines they have several import diesel engines in stock.
jdmenginescorp.com

I dont believe you will find a place that will have ship GM/Ford/Chrystler products to the US that were not offered here other than getting some thing on ebay.co.uk or something like that.

My personal thought on the most economical set up would be to use a vw TD engine from the late 80's with a custom adapter plate to the trucks original 5 speed. or just run a Rabbit truck with the front wheel drive layout. (since front wheel drive is more efficient)

my 2 cents.

good luck with the project.
-Liberty

[RCPlayland]

Thanks man for the advice!

Gives me some stuff to look over.

[RCPlayland]

Again, thanks! What a great resource!

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by RCPlayland

Frank Lee, with the amount of small economy trucks on the roads (gasoline) and the conversion of larger fleets converting to natural gas, and propane. I would guess there is enough demand for this to cover the expenses of certification. You even pointed out that there are other passenger diesel vehicles.

So the conversion costs are mute point due to that they already do this in other venues within the US boarders.

This is not what I came here to do is debate with you and be criticized for one letter off spelling.

I came here to talk with people that are currently doing swaps, conversions, and what "IS" offered in the US to battle the mpg fuel costs.

Not sure what I did to get your attention. But please look else where. As it seems you only want to play games with me.

... of EPA emissions rulings and guidelines.

People may say they would buy an economy diesel truck until they are faced with the several thousand extra it will cost them to do so. Then, the little economy truck doesn't look so economical.

Certification for retrofits is very costly. If the market is small, the cost per unit of conversion makes the exercise virtually impossible to sell. Diesels are considerably more polluting than CNG or propane and thus carry a much higher price tag.

Building diesel and hybrid options into larger payload offerings is always the wise market choice as the higher cost can be amortized into a business that uses the vehicle to make money versus the common person who just uses the average SUV as a people mover ( often only one person at a time).

And, one cannot compare the three differing emission levels of a passenger car, a light truck and a heavy Class 8 tractor. They have vastly different modes of operation and longevity and consequently, certification.

Correction and criticism are a big part of learning. Learn to deal with it or your education will be stunted.

[RCPlayland]

Ok...

Last time I am arguing this.

My bad on using CNG and propane as a example they are less polluting than diesel... but to retort... you state that retrofit conversions to mass produce vehicles are expensive and not cost effective. Yet you state that it would not be unless in a bigger payload.

Here is my example:

I spend $2-4k a year in fuel with my current truck (19-22mpg)
A similar truck that has a 4 cylinder turbo diesel or just diesel can get up to 40-60mpg.

So with that said. Being a buyer of small economy trucks (gas currently). I would expect a reduction of my fuel bill from $2-4k a year to $1-2 at worst. Meaning I would have $1-2k I could apply towards a higher priced truck that has a diesel in it with higher MPG ratings. The $1-2k would be for a truck that would get me 40mpg.

Now if I had a 60mpg diesel truck, I could apply even more.... I would have $1.4-$2.68 I could apply per year to a higher priced truck.

(Yes diesel costs slightly higher, but not enough to falsify my numbers above)

So your logic of cost variance and application does not make any sense to me with my described example.

I can take criticism.

But Frank Lee corrected me with "Who is Cummings".... So sorry... spelling off by one letter.

Second, he asked "Is it the government or the lack of consumer base that prevents North American small diesel pickups?"

I explained, he said ""Does that help?"- Not really.

How is it that diesel passenger cars are sold here?"

Baiting me further.... which I bit. Then after I gave my example... which is not the reason I came here ... He retorts again:

"Because certification is expensive and no manufacturer is going to spend that much if they think they won't find enough buyers?"

Which is the same thing your debating with me on.

With simple math I can show that the average S-10 (which there are still tons of them on the road, especially as work trucks), The market could handle it and charge a extra $5,000-$7,000.... and it would pay for itself with the savings from the cost of fuel economy.

I find it humorous when explained that larger payload vehicles that get 12-19mpg that are converted to 30-35mpg are economical and justify the expense of a manufacturer, And they charge accordingly with about the same ratio numbers of difference in cost.

Yet when I express my view on the economy truck with the subjects or focus on mpg, cost of conversion, buyer's market... ect. It always has to come to this.

This is why I do not argue this, especially with people who bait me only to argue which I already know to be false.

I am looking for data and resources that are factual! As libertyfrancis1 (thank you again) provided for me.

I did not realize there was a importer of non-us based engines/transmissions. Further more he helped me realize that the 4tb motors were extremely heavy.

Sorry, but I did not come here to banter about this "IF" diesel engines would be economical and a market for them. Most times it is mute point, even when shown with simple math that there would be a buyers market here. Regardless of emissions and manufacturer's costs. Otherwise, why are we all here! There is a market!

My rant is done. Geesh. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.... lol.

[RCPlayland]

If anyone still wishes to banter about this subject.

You will not like the outcome... last example..... Ask yourself this.

Which costs more to make? Small truck vs Big truck

So with that said, which would cost less to convert over the assembly line?

This is the logic I will bring to the table.

[Frank Lee]

No, it's been quite tiresome enough already, thanks.

[RCPlayland]

Lmao!