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Old 04-25-2011, 07:47 PM   #101 (permalink)
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I edited my post, what may have been most effective is the fuses that prevents runtime modifications of flash.

Also it is a 2k penalty for everyone who doesn't care.

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Old 04-25-2011, 08:08 PM   #102 (permalink)
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p.s. it would be even more microsoftish of you to promote something that hangs and self destructs
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:10 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffen707 View Post
Unless you made a mpguino from a kit, the one from dcb does not have a usb port. You have to buy an arduino to program the chip. So then you have to unplug it from the socket on the mpguino, plug it into your arduino, upload the new code to it from your computer and usb cable, then pop the chip out of arduino and put it back into the socket on the mpguino.

Unless you've done something else, and would like to share with us. Im interested. Also the crx factory clock location would be a great spot to mod and mount the mpguino. Ive got one in my 97 ek hatch and will be putting one in the drag crx as well.
I'm working with an Arduino Nano. I like it because it's small and has the USB port. Arduino - ArduinoBoardNano

For the clock install I will be laying out a custom circuit board with all surface mount components and I intend to include the USB port on that board. Because I will be using surface mount components the processor chip can't be removed for programming.

Mike
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:19 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msc View Post
I'm working with an Arduino Nano. I like it because it's small and has the USB port. Arduino - ArduinoBoardNano

For the clock install I will be laying out a custom circuit board with all surface mount components and I intend to include the USB port on that board. Because I will be using surface mount components the processor chip can't be removed for programming.

Mike
Where does the atmega328 plug into that thing? Doesn't look like there is a 28 pin socket for it. Or is this designed to be used with a breadboard?
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:37 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Where does the atmega328 plug into that thing? Doesn't look like there is a 28 pin socket for it. Or is this designed to be used with a breadboard?
It's the square component on the top side of the board, between the crystal and the USB connector. There is no socket, it soldered directly to the board.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:52 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffen707 View Post
Where does the atmega328 plug into that thing? Doesn't look like there is a 28 pin socket for it. Or is this designed to be used with a breadboard?
Yes, it's designed for breadboard use. The '328 is permanently soldered to the PCB... It's the square 32-pin chip next to the USB connector. Two of the additional pins are analog... Note A0-7 on the nano vs. A0-5 on a standard board.
The Nano is nice, but the Teensy is more cost effective. I guess the functional difference between the two is that Nano is officially an Arduino board with all associated hardware, while the Teensy uses a non-official chip (though still an ATMEGA) with built-in USB support.
[edit]bleh... spent too much time looking at hardware [/edit]
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:46 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Pardon the additional diversion... but I needed a little break when my lil' package-of-joy from ladyada's store came in the mail today.

1x USB BoArduino
1x Arduino Wave Shield
1x LiPo USB charger (good for topping-up those ol' cell phone batteries I have laying around, and fixing up bad laptop cells)

And I got paid (in part) for a computer repair job with a box of beer. Hm...

2+2 =



Mmm... about the million-and-oneth reason why I love Arduino.
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:31 AM   #108 (permalink)
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your beer guardian seems an appropriate use of arduino I use an old guino to run my water softener with some cheezy arduino script. There is a time and a place for arduino and I think you nailed it there

So anyway what is the name of this thread branch anyway? You happy with falconuino?!? Settle on a unique name and I can get get out of the way. Call it mpguino something and I have to press my pro-modder-feature/anti-arduino-for-projects-of-this-complexity agenda relentlessly.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:57 AM   #109 (permalink)
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lol, there is no way in hell I'm'a let "falconuino" pass as anything but a gratuitous typo :P I was still hoping to pick a better name for the project but it sure would be nice if I could design something good enough to replace the current stale version of the "official" software... but even on the flip side of that I'd almost rather pick a new name just so I wouldn't have to keep trying to syllable-out "MPGuino" when I try to talk about it.

Plus, what is up with trying to completely strip MPGuino of the part where half its name and the entire original platform came from? MPGuino *IS* still Arduino at heart, with all the same initializations, setup, layout, etc... with the exception of the non-standard 20MHz crystal (I still don't understand why; we're at no shortage of clock cycles), it's still a stripped-down Arduino on the back of the prebuilt device I'm writing this for. Arduino is just a collection of actively-supported libraries tacked onto the back of the written code, and an easy platform for modifying it. I don't get what all the fuss is about.

Let's weigh the pros and cons. Cons first, since it seems to be top on your mind.
Cons:
- Boot loader may flip out and erase itself if the chip is subjected to typically electronics-destroying amounts of electrical noise.
- Can't edit the functions/libraries that are already part of Arduino
(that's seriously all I can find)

Pros:
- Enables click-and-edit moddability (what's this sh*t about "pro-modder-feature/anti-arduino"? They're kinda directly tied together: kill Arduino = modder hostile; use Arduino = modder friendly)
- Actively developed with new hardware and software features, and if any feature is changed or broken, they'll have swarms of angry users to hold them accountable
- Compatible with any hardware Arduino supports, such as the Arduino Mega
- Can be modified in exactly the same way as MPGuino is already doing... you can set and edit timers and registers all you like by just looking through the avr-libc libraries

I really, really don't get what all this anti-Arduino agenda is all about. It's the same hardware and the same code, if just a lot slimmer and neater (seriously, I haven't yet broken 10kb, and the current MPGuino code compiles to 17kb) - both to read and to compile. Can you add anything to the cons list?

I guess maybe if there were even an easy way to compile and upload a program outside Arduino, I'd be willing to give it a try. But I don't feel like:
- learning a whole new development environment (especially when the project is called "MPGuino", i.e. "MPG + Arduino")
- doing all my work on a 266MHz Pentium II laptop with a parallel port so I can use the parallel programmer cable
- potentially bricking my Arduino

... just to save <2kb on a goddamn bootloader. >.<
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:43 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconFour View Post
MPGuino *IS* still Arduino at heart
nope, the arduino baggage and dependencies have been removed. I don't want to come between you and arduino, enjoy your honeymoon. But mpguino got an annullment years ago and didn't bother with a name change. Get over it, not a valid argument.

definitions: modder, I mean the guy modding his car, not an electronics/programming geek who probably should be working on his car.

Since coming up with a unique name is apparently a big deal, I will have to expand on the cons list I guess

I will prefix this with I like arduino for learning. But the more I see folks get "stuck" there, i.e. singlesytemitis, the less I'm liking it.

arduino cons:
CON: endless stream of newbie programmers, some of whom know best.
CON: endless irrationality surrounding words ending in uino
CON: newbies do not necessarily do a good job testing "hey it worked once!"
CON: newbies do not necessarily do a good job prioritizing
CON: arduino breaks stuff in new versions, ignore this on your own time please.
CON: arduino is a tiny subset of the larger atmega community. limited skill set.
CON: ISP is far and away the most common way to program atmegas. Why cripple yourself? It is cheap and easy and you can make useful changes. you STILL need specialized hardware for arduino (firmware chip and ftdi usb and drivers) so that is a dumb argument. You can get an ISP programmer for less than any arduino and be free.
CON: the arduino crowd is sorta willfully stupider about the hardware and gcc than the avr crowd, and this is by choice. They are more likely to wash their hands at complicated problems or hardware issues. WHEN something goes wrong or you need to do something that arduino won't let you, you still need to know how the hardware works and what gcc does with it.
CON: 20mhz means your injector readings are 20% more accurate.
CON: supports "any hardware that arduino supports". This is a tool, get it working on ONE $3 chip and quit screwing around debugging on a bunch of pointless chips (see prioritizing). The guy doing cdA tests absolutely doesn't care. It is just another wrench in the toolbox. The guy who does care sees technology as an end unto itself=pointless IMHO.
CON: is completely AVR centric. It may be that microchip is a better choice for version 2.
CON: no control over chip fuses/self crapping bootloader. modder drags the power lead on the battery and has to mail away for a new chip, or has to learn how to program the hardware TWO different ways.
CON: lots of real world devices using AVR that an arduino dependant cannot touch.
CON: arduino is a moving target on top of a rather stable gcc.
CON: very few modders would actually bother to mess with any reprogramming, arduino for reprogramming by itself is enough of a hurdle to thwart most users. The tiny few remaining should have no qualms about figuring out ISP as it only enables them to do greater things.
CON: this is a huge distraction from real features.
CON: I grew tired of being an angry arduino user already trying to future proof what I need for the mpguino project, I'm done talking about it, not going back, no point at all, glorified communal onanism after a certain point. Try gcc, you will like it fine, then we can talk about details. Those avrfreaks REALLY know their stuff.

BTW, you say the code compiles to 10kb, but really this is the "oooh shiney" code that has been totally stripped of functionality, so how is that a valid point of reference?

edit: arduino even f-ed up their forum. Now it is all like some give us your credit cards lego whizbang crap with awful ergonomics and all previous user contributions were cast aside.

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Last edited by dcb; 04-26-2011 at 02:08 PM..
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