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Old 10-20-2010, 12:51 AM   #311 (permalink)
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Also maybe Zeolite can remove the remaining water if you really want to get it all gone. No idea on actually how to do it or even if it is possible but I remember something about using it to get the last bit of water out of moonshine.

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Old 10-20-2010, 01:02 AM   #312 (permalink)
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water and E10 kill fuel pumps and sending units

..."the fuel doesnt usually mess the pump up, it usually gets to the contacts on the fuel sending unit. this does not necessitate a change of the pump."...

no , it is BOTH the fuel pump and the sending units that are destroyed .

BMW and Mercedes Benz will not warranty a fuel pump IF the fuel in the tank has contaminants like water or fuel with more E than E10 .
those fuel pumps have a very hefty price tag
the warranty claim must be submitted with fuel test results or it is denied .

many OEMs demand or at least strongly recommend top tier fuel because of the contamination problem
 
Old 10-20-2010, 01:49 AM   #313 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwebb View Post
those that claim there is no difference in FE using E10 as opposed to using E0
are wrong .
I don't know where you're reading this because nobody has made that claim in this thread. The accepted norm is 3% FE loss with E10.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 02:27 AM   #314 (permalink)
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Even the government says you can expect a 4-5% loss (at least I thought that was the going number) maybe 3% is what you would lose on a WELL TUNED to run on E10 engine ??

In my cars the FUEL PUMPS DIED. car stopped working. No more go juice coming out of the pump. its pretty easy to test. pop the outgoing fuel line apply power. No fuel means bad pump.

I DO notice that is also effects the sending unit. caught me off guard at first. I figure it must be the conductivity difference? the fuel gauges "moves" at a different rate and position on E10 and E0 no problem since I drive by the trip meter but I did notice it.

"why not leave the water in there?"

Coyote. the reason is that others are telling me the longer term effect of water in the gas are VERY bad for my engine (pitting corrosion etc..) I am assuming they know what they are talking about so I assume the danger is real (not sarcastic I mean it) so I have been trying to figure out how to remove all of the water.

as for that nice diesel water seperator. removing water PRESENT in the fuel is easy. I just put a drain at the bottom and "drain off" the water/alcohol.

My concern is the INVISIBLE water. ie the water in SOLUTION in the gasoline.

is there a way to measure how much water is present? maybe the amount present is low enough not to be a threat?

SO I guess the question that needs to be answered.

IS WATER bad for my engine or not?

WILL any residual emulsified water IN my washed gas HARM my engine?

Is there a SAFE legal way for me to store 50 gallons of gasoline? NFPA only suggests 55gallon steel drums for gasoline storage. Is that LEGAL?

what about a home heating oil tank? is that SAFE?

HOW many gallons can I legally and safely store? is 2 5 gallon cans ok? (that would be enough for the lawn equipment for the summer for example)

Zeolite? curious stuff. I am curious though if it absorbs WATER how is it useful for WATER purification?

although I guess if it absorbs water and ONLY water and you then heat it to release the water it would be "pure" water.

thats interesting :-)
 
Old 10-20-2010, 02:30 AM   #315 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
I don't know where you're reading this because nobody has made that claim in this thread. The accepted norm is 3% FE loss with E10.
I am pretty sure he meant no SIGNIFICANT difference. ??
 
Old 10-20-2010, 08:33 AM   #316 (permalink)
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You could use a strong desiccant like magnesium sulfate to remove the water, I'm not sure if silica gel dissolves in organics... but if it doesn't, once removed from the solution you are trying to dehydrate, it can be placed in an oven, dried and reused. A little expensive, but might be worth the experiment, just to prove a point.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com - Magnesium sulfate source

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com - Silica Gel source
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:06 AM   #317 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote X View Post
...With E10 I noticed mine pretty much always stayed pegged at adding more fuel and it was more or less close with the fuel mix that way.
this jibes with the "tiny vacuum leak" comment I saw on the other forum, where it ran out of adjustment room on e10 and mpg was restored after fixing it. How hard is tweaking the fuel pressure up a couple notches? maybe an inverted efie would help if it is a firmware limitation? Some slightly larger flow injectors from the boneyard?



Also, not sure about just using a vacuum gauge to identify leaks
http://www.aa1car.com/library/vacleak.htm
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Last edited by dcb; 10-20-2010 at 10:19 AM..
 
Old 10-20-2010, 12:03 PM   #318 (permalink)
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no vac leaks are checked by hand. I replaced one line not because it was leaking but because it felt brittle. The gauge tested my engines ability to create correct vaccum. Remember there is only a couple feet of vac line on this engine. Flutter would indicate a valve problem which I am thankful I don't have yet (on these engines it always "yet")

dcb for the other guys solution. is it pegging fuel trim because of the vac leak or is the vac leak not letting it peg enough fuel trim? IE we don't WANT to use more fuel :-) (just clarifying)

for the dessicant. won't it just absorb the gasoline? making putting in an oven a really really bad idea ? :-) also if it will just absorb the water will it TAKE water out of solution or just the free floating water?

and I would still love to clarify if the water IS actually harmful to the engine and fuel system. would the simple addition of a maintenance supply of stabil be enough to counter the corrosive effects of the water?
 
Old 10-20-2010, 12:23 PM   #319 (permalink)
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Yah, the link said guy was running with the tiniest of induction leaks, and the system couldn't compensate on e10 and the mixture was almost always too lean (and that his mpg sucked rocks before he fixed it).

Analyzing the exhaust gas would be best, but what do your spark plugs look like? What color?
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:28 PM   #320 (permalink)
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spark plugs are clean. Nice even light grey/tan color with no deposits or crud visible and no pitting. I have not checked in almost 3 months so time permitting I will pull all 3 again today and confirm this.

I do know on E10 my HC is just shy of max for failure of an emissions test. If I can find someone who will do it for me I would like to run that test with E0 and E10 and compare. I could have E0 in the car for this years inspection in a month but comparing that with YEAR old E10 data is not a very valid comparison.

 
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