Replacing mirrors with cameras

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by 98hxman

look in to the 918 hypercar it has a cam set up alot like what you are planing. my give you so good insight as to haw they went about it.

That was just the concept (and, as with other concepts from Lamborghini, Audi, BMW, and others, the cameras are mounted on stalks, unlike what Ecky is planning); the production 918 has traditional mirrors. The only car I know of that has actually made it to (limited) production with side view cameras, and mounted close to the body, is the XL1--anyone know any others? I'm curious what the view from those cameras looks like, mounted lower on the door.

[NeilBlanchard]

I should add that placing the monitors in many cars will be a design challenge. You need to put them where they fit (obviously) and where you ca see them, and as I mentioned, where they are not in bright sunshine (maybe add a hood?) and where they don't cause a reflection in a window at night.

And, once you get them installed, there can be a time for you to change your habit - where do you look if you get into a situation, and you need to make a quick look?

The picture above looks like it is of the VW XL1 - so you can look at the car for a possible solution - they put the monitors on the doors, just below where optical mirrors would be.

[oil pan 4]

Can you get the displays dim down dark enough for night use?
I have noticed a lot of aftermarket displays are just way to bright for night use.

[LittleBlackDuck]

The issues that I foresee based upon my experience with reversing cameras are:

Total lack of depth perception due to the loss of stereo vision.
Your eye's focusing accommodation time when changing from distance to the much closer monitor surface.
Whiteout when the sun is behind you
Night vision- headlights from behind will tend to destroy any usefulness at night by flooding the camera and lifting the auto brightness level.
Reflection from the card windows.
Sun Glare and night viewing of the monitors. I find they need to be recessed quite a bit to achieve this.

I would build the housing with a small spherical mount for the camera to allow tuning of the field of view. Once finalized it can be glued or mechanically locked. I think it also needs to have a fair bit more stand off from the car body and the camera axis more aligned with the car. You need to have some of the car side as reference.

I will follow with interest to see how you go.

Simon

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Can you get the displays dim down dark enough for night use?
I have noticed a lot of aftermarket displays are just way to bright for night use.

Not sure yet. I'm hoping to have a working test bed some time this weekend, but it might be a week or two.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck

The issues that I foresee based upon my experience with reversing cameras are:

Total lack of depth perception due to the loss of stereo vision.
Your eye's focusing accommodation time when changing from distance to the much closer monitor surface.
Whiteout when the sun is behind you
Night vision- headlights from behind will tend to destroy any usefulness at night by flooding the camera and lifting the auto brightness level.
Reflection from the card windows.
Sun Glare and night viewing of the monitors. I find they need to be recessed quite a bit to achieve this.

I would build the housing with a small spherical mount for the camera to allow tuning of the field of view. Once finalized it can be glued or mechanically locked. I think it also needs to have a fair bit more stand off from the car body and the camera axis more aligned with the car. You need to have some of the car side as reference.

I will follow with interest to see how you go.

Simon

How do you get "stereo vision" with an optical mirror?

Here's some of what I learned over 5+ years of driving with video mirrors:

Putting both monitors side-by-side means you only look in on place to see both sides of the car at once. This means much quicker to verify what is around you. And it really helps for backing up into tight spaces.

There are virtually no blind spots. I could see many vehicles in BOTH side view video mirrors at once. And I could see the rear bumper of a vehicle that was even with my shoulder. Think about that.

They work much better in the rain than optical mirrors, and they are also great at dusk.

You do not get blinded by headlights or the sun in the mirror. Yes, direct sunlight (at dawn and sundown only) will possibly overwhelm the camera (depending on how sophisticated its F-stop circuit is), but in this same situation, optical mirrors aren't too great, either.

They do not need to be adjusted between different drivers. Just set the cameras up to show a small bit of the car for reference, and you are good to go.

Depth perception is not great - but if you see something in the video mirror - then turn your hear and look at it.

And let's not forget the biggest benefit: reduced Cd and reduced frontal area mean that you drive farther on less energy.

[LittleBlackDuck]

Neil, if you do the ray tracing you will discover that stereo vision, and hence depth perception is unaffected by the placement of a mirror in the path. You still have 2 eyes that are separated by a finite distance and what they see in a mirror is still different for each eye. Sit in the car, look into the mirror and close each eye in turn. You will find that objects shift laterally because of the different viewing angles for each eye.

Not saying idea will not work, just putting forward the disadvantages that I see. Video "mirrors" have a lot of positives but they are not perfect.

Simon

[Ecky]

Right, and for this reason I also plan to have a pair of convex mirrors just inside the window.

[Ecky]

Played with some orientations for the screens. The Insight has very little real estate on the dash, and none of them felt particularly great.

The first one doesn't block as much line-of-site as it appears in the picture, but anything that obstructs forward vision probably isn't a good idea:




The second is better, but mounting will be somewhat tricky.




The third is the one I'm favoring as it mimics stock mirror locations and obscures virtually nothing, but the screens may end up very distracting at night. At the very least I'll need to be able to turn them off.

[LittleBlackDuck]

Turning off = no situational awareness. You will be unable to take a glance if you need to make a sudden manoeuver to avoid another twerp.

Not a good idea.

Simon