Rising Fuel Prices

[Hersbird]

I think the pandemic has demonstrated teachers, professors, and all educators are not needed in anywhere near their current numbers. One recorded excellent math teacher can teach thousands or even millions of kids that never need to leave home on those big yellow busses you all were talking about earlier. Computers can administer and grade the work.

[freebeard]

Everyone's better off, as nobody would just transport themselves to an earlier epoc at the age they're at.

I don't know.... I wouldn't mind seeing 1956 again. And I'd know to keep my head down ten years later.

I also sought out the bottom, where it only comes at you from one direction. But I progressed from sewing sacks of mill run in a seed mill, to floating in an Herman Miller Aeron chair with a headset and helping people victimized by Bill Gates's operating system.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

It's not a big SUV, it's a tiny Honda without even AWD. It has an efficient CVT and a small 4 cylinder. You aren't getting double 30 mpg highway with anything out there, maybe 40 or 45 mpg, but it wouldn't be ideal on the deadliest stretch of road in Montana. She has 2 giant teenage boys so and an adult daughter living with her (a masters degree LCSW who can't afford to live in her own place either but at least is all teleconference so don't have to drive.) The CRV is about as small as she can get by with. As I pointed out, no bus or trains around here. There is a free city bus in town that would go the last 2 miles of her 60 mile each way but what's the point then? Carpool never really works out, she has a unique schedule at her work, and it's never consistent enough for other people to team up with.

PS I see you are in Germany. Just for a point of reference Montana is almost exactly the same size as Germany but with 1 million people while Germany has 84 million people. Sometimes I don't think Europe gets how wide open much of the USA is.

Yes, he lives in Germany. Big and Small are relative terms.

In the EU the best selling car in the EU is the VW Golf. It is a family car there and on the larger side of normal cars. A lot of the best sellers are superminis - what we call subcompacts in the USA. Toyota Yaris, VW Polo, Renault Clio, Peugeot 208, Opel Corsa - they are all subcompact cars that are in the best selling 10 cars in Europe.

Europeans drive small cars because gas is expensive. They aren't shorter than Americans yet somehow they manage to fit families in much smaller cars than what we drive in the USA. (Just like their construction workers, plumbers, and electricians manage to build things without everyone driving a F-150)

When a friend of mine lived in Germany he had a 1st generation Renault Twingo and routinely went on trips with friends. He was the smallest of the 4 people in the car at 6' 1". (A Twingo is 15 inches shorter than a Geo Metro Hatch)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I don't know.... I wouldn't mind seeing 1956 again. And I'd know to keep my head down ten years later.

I also sought out the bottom, where it only comes at you from one direction. But I progressed from sewing sacks of mill run in a seed mill, to floating in an Herman Miller Aeron chair with a headset and helping people victimized by Bill Gates's operating system.

My use of absolutes was an imitation of Scott Adam's persuasive technique. I haven't decided if that's a useful strategy or not, but when Scott says "nobody/everybody" we know he's being hyperbolic and using it for effect. Probably doesn't translate in written form and only appropriate for verbal communication.


I also didn't mean to imply retaining hindsight in my imaginary transportation back to a prior epoch. I romanticize about listening to oldies (pop music) at a burger joint in the 50s. It would be an amazing experience, but if it were my day in, day out experience, I'd end up preferring living in this modern era. Nothing prevents me from living more simply in a modern era either.

Comfort is the enemy of maximizing potential. I've probably squandered more potential than most, especially with regards to attending to the most important things first. I'd rather satisfy my interests than attend to important matters. Sometimes my interests and important matters intersect, but usually they don't. The real magic is being interested in important matters and converting it into something valuable both personally and to others.

Originally Posted by JSH

Europeans drive small cars because gas is expensive. They aren't shorter than Americans yet somehow they manage to fit families in much smaller cars than what we drive in the USA. (Just like their construction workers, plumbers, and electricians manage to build things without everyone driving a F-150)

Certainly fuel is more expensive in Europe and a big factor in vehicle purchasing decisions. My understanding is that Europeans are more likely to shop daily for groceries though, and therefore don't tend to stock up for a week or a month with big Costco runs. A big run usually requires a larger vehicle. There's no way my TSX would handle the brick of TP and other bulk goods from a Costco run.

Shops tend to be located more locally from my understanding too. I weekly shop for groceries 25 minutes away, for example. Nothing is within walking distance, but I do choose to travel further for the larger selection and savings (low cost price leader).

[Autobahnschleicher]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Well, the great majority of work in those areas is construction. And most people work for themselves. So you have to have a vehicle you can haul tools and materials in and get into places that may have undeveloped roads and driveways. Plus people think you need a truck-like vehicle with 4WD for driving in the winter. Add to that that a lot of places that sell materials more economically are also down where housing is cheaper, so that helps make up for the cost of the commute too.

Anyhow, it still is cheaper than renting near the place of work. I do think some of these people are crazy for the time they spend away from family, and a lot of times they end up divorced or with other family problems. But it's the way things have been going. People want more ane more and stuff keeps getting more expensive and competition keeps driving wages down so your only option is to work more and more to keep up with the Jones'. Well, except now there isn't any competition because people are looking for a change.

There are more fuel efficient alternatives to trucks, such as vans.
A Mercedes Sprinter (sold as Dodge in the US) can transport every bit as much as a truck and get far better fuel economy.
Alternatively one could get a normal car and a trailer, then loadthe materials on the trailer and only use the trailer when materials need to be moved.
As for AWD and winter:
You don't realy need AWD, you need proper winter/snow tires and weight on the driven axle, something that 2wd trucks lack.
However this whole case is not at all representative for the average person at all.

[Autobahnschleicher]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

It's not a big SUV, it's a tiny Honda without even AWD. It has an efficient CVT and a small 4 cylinder. You aren't getting double 30 mpg highway with anything out there, maybe 40 or 45 mpg, but it wouldn't be ideal on the deadliest stretch of road in Montana. She has 2 giant teenage boys so and an adult daughter living with her (a masters degree LCSW who can't afford to live in her own place either but at least is all teleconference so don't have to drive.) The CRV is about as small as she can get by with. As I pointed out, no bus or trains around here. There is a free city bus in town that would go the last 2 miles of her 60 mile each way but what's the point then? Carpool never really works out, she has a unique schedule at her work, and it's never consistent enough for other people to team up with.

PS I see you are in Germany. Just for a point of reference Montana is almost exactly the same size as Germany but with 1 million people while Germany has 84 million people. Sometimes I don't think Europe gets how wide open much of the USA is.

I looked the Honda CRV up again, that is a big SUV that weights over 1,5 tons and the smallest engine is a 2 L.
You don't buy that for fuel efficiency.
My previous car had a fuel efficiency of 3,5L/100 km wich is almost 70 mpg, and that was just a dirt cheap economy car with a small gasoiline engine.
With a diesel, you can very well beat that.
Even with a large family friendly car such as a Passat with the 1.9 TDi engine.

You guys over there seem rather privileged if you consider a large SUV as an economical choice and won't even consider going anywhere without a car.

[Autobahnschleicher]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Certainly fuel is more expensive in Europe and a big factor in vehicle purchasing decisions. My understanding is that Europeans are more likely to shop daily for groceries though, and therefore don't tend to stock up for a week or a month with big Costco runs. A big run usually requires a larger vehicle. There's no way my TSX would handle the brick of TP and other bulk goods from a Costco run.

Shops tend to be located more locally from my understanding too. I weekly shop for groceries 25 minutes away, for example. Nothing is within walking distance, but I do choose to travel further for the larger selection and savings (low cost price leader).

I drive a car that has arguably amongst the lowest cargo capacity on the entire forum due to its mid engined layout and focus on handling over pretty much anything else.
Yet even I can very well fit a weeks worth of groceries in it with room to spare, and that's for 3 people.
I often do that, and haven't had issues so far.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by Autobahnschleicher

I looked the Honda CRV up again, that is a big SUV that weights over 1,5 tons and the smallest engine is a 2 L.
You don't buy that for fuel efficiency.
You guys over there seem rather privileged if you consider a large SUV as an economical choice and won't even consider going anywhere without a car.

I kinda laughed at that quote. I mean my Prius weighs over 1,5 tons and has a 1.8L engine. Do you consider that a big SUV? I think the whole going somewhere without a car is just a social disconnect. How often and how far are you going places without a car? It sounds like things in your city are a lot closer. How far do you travel to things in your daily life where you live?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Certainly fuel is more expensive in Europe and a big factor in vehicle purchasing decisions. My understanding is that Europeans are more likely to shop daily for groceries though, and therefore don't tend to stock up for a week or a month with big Costco runs. A big run usually requires a larger vehicle. There's no way my TSX would handle the brick of TP and other bulk goods from a Costco run.

Shops tend to be located more locally from my understanding too. I weekly shop for groceries 25 minutes away, for example. Nothing is within walking distance, but I do choose to travel further for the larger selection and savings (low cost price leader).

None of that just happened - it is based on decisions made over time - both collectively and personally.

Do Americans buy 24 or 30 rolls of toilet paper at a time because we have giant cars or do we have giant cars because we prefer to buy 24 or 30 rolls of toilet paper at a time. (Why do we use TP at all?)

Really it comes down to most Americans not knowing that how we "normally" live isn't typical not only in the developed world but even in our country over time.

People in the USA used to get groceries every day back when people lived in mixed use communities where shopping and housing were in the same place. Then we chose to throw out city planing and allow developers to build subdivisions miles outside of town so that people had to drive to get to work and shop.

The average house size today would be a mansion to people even 50 years ago. Our average new house construction today is 2700 sq ft! So again - do we live in huge houses because we choose to buy 24 rolls of TP at a time or do we buy 24 rolls of TP at a time because we live in giant houses.

Building giant houses also feeds into to the high cost of housing and the fact that some young people can't afford to live in their own communities. (Of course gentrification isn't new - it is just starting to hit small and rural communities)

So we have chosen to live in giant houses, away from work and shopping, and then drive everyday in very inefficient cars. And then we complain that energy is expensive because we have made our entire lives dependent on cheap energy.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I think the pandemic has demonstrated teachers, professors, and all educators are not needed in anywhere near their current numbers. One recorded excellent math teacher can teach thousands or even millions of kids that never need to leave home on those big yellow busses you all were talking about earlier. Computers can administer and grade the work.

The entire COPOUT-26 in Scotland could have been done entirely over ZOOM.
It's kinda hard to convince me that you're serious about the USA carbon footprint when your 747, alone, burns through 63,000-gallons of jet fuel.
At 21.5- pounds carbon dioxide/ gallon, Biden's roundtrip is looking like 1,354,500-pounds, or, 677-tons. And that's just his plane.
Really bad double-speak public relations.