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Old 03-30-2009, 01:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi guys, I had researched this about two years ago. There are a few Emulsion formulas and I've tried about three that didn't work straight from the patents. The one that seemed to work was from a Dan Gunnerson. He worked or still works for CAT. Yet I found their patent. It took me awhile and found pat #5,873,916 to be the one from Caterpillar. However Gunnerson is not on that patent. It was designed for Diesel primarily due to the countless law suits Caterpillar was involved with in related to the exhaust health problems by operators, the patent is from late 1999. I saw a video promotion by CAT that showed a front end loader under load and zero suit coming from the exhaust. They had a 50% mixture in the video. The formula I used was from him and worked till I could no longer get two of the chemicals. After about two weeks though the fuel and water started to separate and formed a white film (presumably dissociated water and hydrocarbon substrates) on the top. The CAT patent is circuitry utilizing pressure and not chemicals. That's about what I know of it. I have tested dissociated water and methanol from heat at different points to develop a phase change and have had decent gains in mileage and moderately in power. Metering isn't all that difficult. We've tested accurately utilizing a rear wheel dyno. Through disassociation you utilize far less water/methanol. I could average 230+ miles with a 360V8 Dodge to one gallon of water/methanol at stable driving at 2,200 rpm +-. The pix below was from the day we tested. It also allowed for a more stable A/F ratio from the never stable AFB Carb utilized. Thus adding to mileage gains.

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Old 03-30-2009, 08:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by naturalextraction View Post
I could average 230+ miles with a 360V8 Dodge to one gallon of water/methanol at stable driving at 2,200 rpm +-.

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Old 03-30-2009, 10:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Blue Bomber Man View Post
I might have missed something, but how would you prevent the gas and the water from separating in the fuel tank?
Yes, you missed something, it's in the title of the thread, Emulsion

anyone try mixing E-85 with water?
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Doesn't really answer my question though. Even if you could make the water make little globs, the density difference should still cause the fluids to separate. Their must be a secondary effect of the globs that changes the way it interacts with gasoline, perhaps creating some sort of weak bond to the gasoline molecule.
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Old 03-30-2009, 01:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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So . . . hard to find chemicals, limited shelf life, unreproduced results, and no long term data on it's effects on passenger cars. How about water injection instead?

Future Sustainable Living: Water Injection and Fuel Economy
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hey guys, As I mentioned water injection on many levels have proven gains in power and economy. Our testing results show that by disassociating the water further allows for longer use and better atomization in the air/fuel mixture regardless of the type of fuel delivery system your car may have. Most methods are utilized as the vehicle is under load. We've found that a measured amount or metered preferably throughout the RPM range allows for better mileage through the methodology I explained above. Most people wont try it as 1. their afraid of ruining their engine, 2. simply not familiar with the physics behind the theory related to the ICE (internal combustion engine) and it's applications to combustion pressures and water or disassociated water. 3. most people don't have the tools to produce a metering system that regulates through out the RPM range developed for economy.
Google it under aeronautics as more testing was done their and then under racing. I still run it on my Truck (re; pix in prior post) I need to upgrade it's delivery aspects as it needs more under higher loads. The re-condensates fall back into the system and rarely out into ambient. The other benefit is if your running an extreme lean system (17:1.1 or better) a larger amount of the 50/50 mix brings your power up noticebly and lowers the NOX that is typical of ultra lean burn conditions in the ICE.
Here's a fairly active site for those who utilize or are wanting to utilize simple water injection devices: water injection

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Old 03-30-2009, 05:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
I've heard that filling up at cheap gas stations carries the risk of getting gas that was "baptised" with water, which isn't supposed to be too good for your engine.
Um, no water permanently emulsiphied with gas and water floating in the gas are two very different things, normally though this is used in diesel to reduce emissions.

Em Fuel

If I remember this has been around since the 60's but when they tried to impliment, it reduced polution but increased fuel useage making it rather unpopular with the fuel crisis and was shelved.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Water injection is common practice among those turbocharging their cars for big gains, misted into the engine, it cools the internals allowing more boost and timing where otherwise things would get too hot and detonate. The quenching action also keeps your pistons and everything squeeky clean, no carbon build up. Done properly, I think it would provide worth while gains on a lean burn allowing it to be pushed a little leaner without frying the engine.

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