Should you use E15?

[user removed]

I've run E10 in a 1971 Honda CB350 without changing any carb settings. When it comes to storage, I just drain the fuel out and put it in my car or truck, then add new fuel. My 89 Suzuki GS500 E has run E10 only, without carb problems (after cleaning-no parts) or any jet changes. It runs fine and started up fine after sitting for 2 months. It's about time to drain the fuel in that bike.

In cars with modern vapor sealed fuel systems, E10 can go much longer without problems. My Altima Coupe sat for 11 months when it was totalled before it ran again. No problems with the original battery which still had a small charge, or with the almost year old gas. Modern vapor recovery systems do not allow significant amounts of moisture to be exposed to the fuel.

regards
Mech

[American Viking]

Originally Posted by ecoTex

this is page 296 from your owner's manual.
Your car IS designed to run E10. Older cars and small engines are not.

I've seen e10 warnings on gas pumps here in NJ since the about 2003, when some stations started blending it in to avoid using MTBE.
Most cars built from even back into the 1990's are fine with E10 and will be fine with E15.
Small engines don't have trouble running even E85, What they have problems with is storing the gas. E10 will go off in just a few days in a gas can, never mind a lawn mower carb bowl.
Storage is the only issue I have ever had with E10 and I expect zero issues with E15.

Now I can't speak for E85, because there is none in this area. Buying a Flex-fuel vehicle in this state is a joke, cause its not going to see more than E15 around here.

[roosterk0031]

I'm going to disagree with our small carb'd engine's being OK running E85, if you can get it started it will be running lean. With 28% less energy vs regualar gas you need to change the jets to feed more fuel per air flow to keep the engine happy.

With fuel injection making it down to small engines most won't take E85 just like most cars won't without a CEL. But all my cars take 50% without any problem. I'd run E15 in all my mowers never giving it a second though, isn't worth blending for a few gallons they use a week.

PS, love the VFR's, had a 83 v45 interceptor for a while, love to find a yellow 2000

[American Viking]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

I'm going to disagree with our small carb'd engine's being OK running E85, if you can get it started it will be running lean. With 28% less energy vs regualar gas you need to change the jets to feed more fuel per air flow to keep the engine happy.

With fuel injection making it down to small engines most won't take E85 just like most cars won't without a CEL. But all my cars take 50% without any problem. I'd run E15 in all my mowers never giving it a second though, isn't worth blending for a few gallons they use a week.

PS, love the VFR's, had a 83 v45 interceptor for a while, love to find a yellow 2000

I've sourced e85 to run in a couple of my fords and I never had them throw cel. Then again both those fords were supercharged and had both dynamic fuel pressure regulators and large injectors. But the biggest thing I guess is to have a wideband o2 sensor so the ecu has a chance to tune to stoichiometric range on e85 (roughly 10:1 IIRC).

As for the small engines, it wouldn't take much adjustment of the fuel mixture screw to sort out the idle mix and then lift the needle with either a couple of little washers under the clip or moving the clip down.

Now on the 2000 VFR, its Yellow was so ugly to me, I waited until 2001 to get a red one. My second VFR is a 99. With the power commander on them makes returning for e85 a few clicks of a tuning map.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

All I can say is that this hE15 blend they sell over here has 0.6% water content to protect against ethanol erosion.

I've run it in the 'Dwarf - VW rated it for E10 , but seeing it can cope with CNG, it should cope with a bit more ethanol as well. Both run dry and hot anyway.

Eh15 doesn't nearly run as well though.
It feels like it's always hesitating - which is saying something when the base reference is a mere 68 HP and no torque running on CNG (slow throttle response).
Doesn't run as smooth @ idle either.

[RedDevil]

No two cars are the same. I have no problem with hE15 whatsoever. I'm back on regular E95 for a tank now and I cannot see or feel any difference in performance and general handling for better or for worse. Not even for consumption.
I could not tell what's in the tank from the handling.

My wallet knows, though. Banning special offers there is a 6 cents per liter price difference.

[123]

Hi I will put in my 2 cents. I have made ethanol to run in engines and no I don't work for anything related to the ethanol industry. 99% of problems with ethanol and engines not running well on E85 is the engine being made to run gas not ethanol. The worst "damage" I have seen from running ethanol was on an old Briggs and stratton engine. There was rust in the tank after letting it sit for 6 months with ethanol that had 20% water in it.

Ethanol has oxygen molecules in it so it needs a higher fuel to air ratio then gasoline to compensate for the oxygen. Like Frank Lee's snow blower the Briggs and stratton engine ran great after choking the engine = less air into engine. Also the cold weather problem with ethanol is because its less volatile then gas, so to compensate flex fuels squirt more fuel into the engine when starting. The other major problem people see even on flex fuel vehicles is running high % of ethanol on high mileage vehicles that have only run on gas and this is do to the solvent properties of ethanol. Your fuel system gets cleaned of gasoline residues and this causes clogged fuel filters.

Yes ethanol does have some compatibility issues with some materials like natural rubber and some types of plastic.

An engine built for ethanol will see the same if not better fuel economy then gas, only problem is high compression = no more gasoline. Saab made the best flex fuel vehicle I have ever seen it increase turbo boost for more power when it senses higher % of ethanol in the tank.

[American Viking]

Originally Posted by 123

Hi I will put in my 2 cents. I have made ethanol to run in engines and no I don't work for anything related to the ethanol industry. 99% of problems with ethanol and engines not running well on E85 is the engine being made to run gas not ethanol. The worst "damage" I have seen from running ethanol was on an old Briggs and stratton engine. There was rust in the tank after letting it sit for 6 months with ethanol that had 20% water in it.

Well, any untreated fuel gasoline or ethanol will attract water and cause rust in fuel tank. I've seen tanks rust out long before there was e10. That's why all my motorcycles gas tanks get protective coating.
What method and materials did you use to produce your ethanol?

Originally Posted by 123

Ethanol has oxygen molecules in it so it needs a higher fuel to air ratio then gasoline to compensate for the oxygen. Like Frank Lee's snow blower the Briggs and stratton engine ran great after choking the engine = less air into engine.

First off, Gasoline a not a single molecule, but a blend of compounds. Nearly all of them have some oxygen in their makeups.
Ethanol has 5 HC bonds to oxidize and one Hydroxide per molecule.
Octane (one of the measured compounds of Gasoline) has 18 HC bonds to oxidize and no hydroxides.
Less HC bonds means more Fuel needed for a given volume of atmosphere.

Originally Posted by 123

Also the cold weather problem with ethanol is because its less volatile then gas, so to compensate flex fuels squirt more fuel into the engine when starting. The other major problem people see even on flex fuel vehicles is running high % of ethanol on high mileage vehicles that have only run on gas and this is do to the solvent properties of ethanol. Your fuel system gets cleaned of gasoline residues and this causes clogged fuel filters.

That again comes back to the fact that gasoline is not a single compound, but that it is a mix of many molecules. Some that vaporize at very low temps, that lets us have enough vapor to start an engine at cold temperatures, but this also leaves high vapor temperature compounds behind to form varnishes. Then along comes the ethanol that acts as a solvent, breaking down these varnishes, dissolving them into the liquid again. Unfortunately some of the really bad crud gets trapped in the filters and they need replacing.

Originally Posted by 123

Yes ethanol does have some compatibility issues with some materials like natural rubber and some types of plastic.

Gasoline also has issues with natural rubber and plastics, that's why I use neoprene and silicone materials wherever possible and I don't even have access to E85.

Originally Posted by 123

An engine built for ethanol will see the same if not better fuel economy then gas, only problem is high compression = no more gasoline. Saab made the best flex fuel vehicle I have ever seen it increase turbo boost for more power when it senses higher % of ethanol in the tank.

Oh, yeah An engine built to run on Ethanol, will run best on compression up near the diesel engine range.
I remember experimenting with a variable compression head in college as a possible design solution for flex fuel.

[Cobb]

Well, its back warm last week in VA and I tried it again. I had done 4.x gallons of e85 to 6.x gallons of regular gas. It did well like 93 octane and gained 10 mpg. Only down side was in the cold weather below freezing I got a trim error.

Well I tried 2.x gallons e85 to 8.x gallons of gas. I actually lost 5 mpg.

Tank 2 with 4.x e85 and 6.x gas is not counted as I made 4 trips to the hardware store for 50 bags of mulch and a trip to the dump. Even with that its at 40mpg and as of yesterday temps dipped to freezing again. All trips required me to idle inline as lowes has a line and loads your stuff for free. The dump had a long line too as they weigh you coming and going.

Im thinking a 4 to 6 or a 5 to 5 ratio maybe ideal in non freezing weather for max mpg and performance without a cel.

[gone-ot]

Well, the Owners Manual for our 2014 Prius emphatically states NOT to use anything higher than E15:

• Use only gasoline containing up to 15% ethanol.

• DO NOT use any flex-fuel or gasoline that could contain more than 15% ethanol, including from any pump labeled E30, E50, E85 (which are only some examples of fuel containing more than 15% ethanol).