Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-22-2008, 12:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
Here, there, everywhere
 
regor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 52

regor's civic - '08 honda civic lx
90 day: 39.95 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shutting off the engine at traffic lights (was-Want to Hypermile Please Help )

In the thread labeled "Want to Hypermile Please Help", the poster makes mention of turning off the engine at traffic lights. I do the same when I know I will be there for 1 minute or longer. The question is: when does it become economical to shut the engine off at traffic lights? I recall reading once that if you're stopped there for over a minute, then turn it off. I guess it matters what kind of vehicle you're driving too. Can anyone provide data that states if you know how long the light is, at what point it becomes a benefit / more economical to turn off the engine? We must remember that it takes more fuel to restart the vehicle.

I also wonder about the wear and tear on the starter by constantly shutting the engine off and restarting.

One thing about trying to get as much MPG out of your vehicle as possible, you also have to factor in wear costs. Itís like a previous post of mine that I mentioned how to drive down a mountain grade. I was taught (I use to drive a school bus) that I should stick the vehicle in the lowest gear possible, which would mean less use of the brakes. The comment was made, if you donít, youíll end up burning out your brakes and what will stop you then? So I was pretty much taught to use my transmission, because if that goes out, youíll have your brakes to stop you. Itís somewhat the same about turning your engine off at lights. You end up putting more wear and tear on the starter.
So in conclusion, as I stated above, can anyone provide data about at what point it is more economical to shut your engine down at traffic lights if you know how long the light is?

__________________
I drive-
11 Hyundai Elantra GLS
16 Honda Pilot LX
And a 1907 Baldwin Steam Locomotive (Really)
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-22-2008, 10:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,652

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.78 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 66.29 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,398
Thanked 6,211 Times in 3,218 Posts
Have a look in this thread:

How much fuel does it take to re-start a warm engine?
__________________
Latest mods: 3-cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage. EcoMods now in progress...
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 11:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
metroschultz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norfolk, Va. USA
Posts: 869

CPT SLO - '93 GEO Metro plainjane
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

SilverHairBeauty - '01 Toyota Avalon XL
90 day: 24.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 14
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Send a message via AIM to metroschultz
Lightbulb I knew you would have the answer

I shut off my engine as much as possible when I'm not using it to drive the wheels.
I knew this info was out there, but I didn't know where, Thanx Metro.
Good article, well written and informative.
Covered all the questions I had before and while reading.
It should be a sticky and/or required reading.
S.
__________________


When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 11:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
is awesome
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I wonder about starter wear also, fortunately both of my cars have very accessible starters and I can buy them used for ~$10 at the scrap yards.
__________________
KU School of Engineering
'72 Datsun 240z
'96 Chevy lumina
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 11:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,490

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 349
Thanked 120 Times in 79 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatejoefitz View Post
I wonder about starter wear also, fortunately both of my cars have very accessible starters and I can buy them used for ~$10 at the scrap yards.
Make sure voltage is high enough and there isn't excessive cranking. Aside from too much heat, a starter should last for hundreds of thousands of starts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 11:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,121

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,438
Thanked 2,489 Times in 1,501 Posts
The only info I have on starter wear is that Wayne Gerdes replaced his on his accord after 80k or so miles. He is also pretty crazy when it comes to having the engine off, so that starter got a huge workout.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 12:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
metroschultz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norfolk, Va. USA
Posts: 869

CPT SLO - '93 GEO Metro plainjane
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

SilverHairBeauty - '01 Toyota Avalon XL
90 day: 24.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 14
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Send a message via AIM to metroschultz
My X-Wife was a grinder in the morning, holding the key in start 8 - 10 seconds after thee car had started. Starters would get replaced every 11 - 12 months, irregardless of the car she had.
I bump the starter, release the key as soon as I hear rotation. My 1979 Rabbit had 230k on the clock with the OEM starter still bolted in when I sold it in 1992.
I believe it all depends on the hand turning the key.
Many new cars take you out of the equation now with starters run by the ECU that kick out the relay as soon as they see engine rotation above a preset limit. Hence all the button starts on high end cars. But even if you have a new Chevy truck you are not allowed to overrun the starter, the key just tells the ECU you want the car started. If you hold it too long the ECU still cuts power. If you don't hold it long enough the ECU keeps it turning.
I didn't mean to get so wordy, just wanted to voice my opinion,
Schultz
__________________


When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 12:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
TheDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Davenport,FL
Posts: 214

Pepper - '87 Mercedes Benz 300D
90 day: 30.42 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
With my diesel and a working glow plug relay it takes two turns and it fires up. Recently the relay died and it takes about 10 seconds of cranking. I need a new relay.

Replacing a starter on the om617 is not fun, especially on the turbocharged model. I turn my car off when I have to wait for my turn to go when there is a one way road due to construction. I seem to catch lights at the right time.

Also, my engine doesn't consume that much fuel at idle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,652

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.78 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 66.29 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,398
Thanked 6,211 Times in 3,218 Posts
Note that Gerdes' Accord was an automatic as well, so bump starting wasn't an option. But yes, you are right to point out there are few others as extreme when it comes to engine off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metroschultz View Post
My 1979 Rabbit had 230k on the clock with the OEM starter still bolted in when I sold it in 1992.
Shultz: that's impresive. I owned 6 Rabbits - about one a year at the end of high school and through university - and replaced at least 3 VW starters, which suggests they weren't the most robust to start with. (Can't blame myself for the starter wear, since they were all well used when I got them!)
__________________
Latest mods: 3-cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage. EcoMods now in progress...
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 03:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
metroschultz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norfolk, Va. USA
Posts: 869

CPT SLO - '93 GEO Metro plainjane
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

SilverHairBeauty - '01 Toyota Avalon XL
90 day: 24.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 14
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Send a message via AIM to metroschultz
I loved that car, and regularly got >35 MPG.
I've been looking for another, that's why I got excited about the Scirocco down the street, that I can't afford, but it hasn't sold yet, so maybe I can afford it, but then my Wife would be mad 'cause there is another car in the driveway, but I could store it at my Friends Repair Shop, although I already have one there. so maybe it's not for me anyway.
Dang, I loved that car,
But I still think it is the operator who decides how long a starter will last. And previous owners are the worst abusers.
Yes, other factors play a role, but these factors can be controlled by the operator as well.
My second job as a Mechanic was at a VW Dealer, at one time I had 6 (six) Rabbits in the back yard. My house looked like a bad VW commercial.
Schultz.

__________________


When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
100+ hypermiling / ecodriving tips & tactics MetroMPG Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 455 03-31-2020 03:14 PM
Idea for government: Traffic Light Timers newtonsfirstlaw General Efficiency Discussion 29 03-10-2012 11:33 AM
Coasting experiment: engine on VS engine off on a fixed route = 12.9% gain MetroMPG Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 6 02-22-2008 08:38 AM
Article: Road traffic up 84% in the U.K. MetroMPG General Efficiency Discussion 20 12-15-2007 02:34 PM
Basic EcoDriving Techniques and Instrumentation SVOboy Instrumentation 2 11-17-2007 11:38 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com