Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2012, 05:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 269 Times in 212 Posts
yah, and even electric vehicles can benefit from having actual gears to choose from downstream of the motor, i.e. so you can climb hills AND go 70mph.

__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dcb For This Useful Post:
user removed (01-26-2012)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-26-2012, 09:01 AM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
They are beginning to figure that out dcb.
regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 05:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,474
Thanked 2,949 Times in 1,843 Posts
It takes a transmission specifically designed for electric motors. Regular car transmissions cannot handle the instant torque -- ask the good folks who built the Illuminati '7'. Even the differential was destroyed by the electric motor.

And Tesla tried a 2-speed transmission, and then discarded it. Direct drive is better, and more efficient.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 05:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 52
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I got alot going on right now , so im going to have to just quit my planning , researching , and deciding. Too much stuff on my mind right now so need to put all this on hold.

But from everything trying to decide in my head without being able to really sit down and think it through cause of stuff that always comes up and has come up now.

I think im going to go to the ICE setup and just do the best I can with mpg with the performance im looking for. Alot of reasons which I havent fully sit down and figured out pros and cons and how accurate my reasons are but cant right now. But think im going that way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,553 Times in 2,217 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
It takes a transmission specifically designed for electric motors. Regular car transmissions cannot handle the instant torque -- ask the good folks who built the Illuminati '7'. Even the differential was destroyed by the electric motor.

And Tesla tried a 2-speed transmission, and then discarded it. Direct drive is better, and more efficient.
Electric motors have efficiency curves like ICE's do; and if the vehicle has wide enough variations in environmental demands placed on it (low neighborhood speeds AND turnpike speeds; steep hills and flats; empty and heavy loads) an EV with gears has a definite leg up.

As far as "regular" transmissions being too weak, well, that was just a poor choice of transmissions on the part of the builder(s). If people build 1000 hp street machines with transmissions, you can sure build an EV with one.

As far as the Fiero, you can expect 90+% efficiency with a stock a/t and, oh, 94+% efficiency with an m/t. ICE>generator>motor would certainly be far worse.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 07:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
He will figure it out eventually Frank. Direct drive EVs need motors that are too large and they can't regenerate 30% of any decelerative energy, without some way to raise the motors RPM.

A 60-0 panic stop only takes about 20-25 revolutions of the wheels, he can't explain how you are going to pack 600 HP seconds of energy into a chemical battery in 25 revolutions of an electric motor generator unless its as big as a power plant, and the battery weighs several tons. He will avoid the point by saying you should never have to panic stop.

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
Might actually learn something if he read the link. Even EVs can benefit from capacitive load levelling with a capacitor or accumulator. but it won't happen with direct drive which still requires a differential or two motors.

Electric Hydrid

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
Green Car Congress: Getrag introduces new dual clutch transmission for electric drives, prototype of range extender, mild-hybrid dual-clutch variant

Green Car Congress: Antonov study of multi-speed transmission for EVs finds improved efficiency over different drive cycles

Green Car Congress: On-road testing of new multi-speed transmission for EVs from Oerlikon Graziano/Vocis begins; potential for increased range or reduced pack size

It would seem ludicrous for these major international corporations to think it is cost effective to actually have a transmission in an electric car.

Wonder how they could so stupidly waste precious resources.

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 52
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Electric motors have efficiency curves like ICE's do; and if the vehicle has wide enough variations in environmental demands placed on it (low neighborhood speeds AND turnpike speeds; steep hills and flats; empty and heavy loads) an EV with gears has a definite leg up.

As far as "regular" transmissions being too weak, well, that was just a poor choice of transmissions on the part of the builder(s). If people build 1000 hp street machines with transmissions, you can sure build an EV with one.

As far as the Fiero, you can expect 90+% efficiency with a stock a/t and, oh, 94+% efficiency with an m/t. ICE>generator>motor would certainly be far worse.
things have calmed down for the moment so I have time , especially since its dark out. I cant go outside and get things done and etc...

I have decided to just go the route of a full ICE setup , 1-2L displacement because I can get enough N/A power out of that sized displacement and gear towards what I need for what I want. While keeping the reduced weight im looking for.

170+ HP from 1L minimum, but peaky and narrow powerband so not much down low but quick revving if geared enough to not struggle to make up for it. tuned where peak power occurs at a healthy and reliable mean piston speed. I dont know what efficiency would end up being with this because I would still be able to cruise with low HP but in lower rpms with an engine which favors higher rpm.

came concept as formula one to where it should perform well still?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,553 Times in 2,217 Posts
Motorcycle engine? Lots of shifting but if the power is there it should move. Possibly somewhat more efficient than a stock Fiero, but possibly not.

__________________


  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com