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Old 09-01-2008, 10:02 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tony Raine View Post
driving test needs to be re-taken at least every 10 years.
Good thought, also fines should be much higher for speeding, reckless op, and TAILGATING. To the point a person does commit one of these offenses they will definitely think twice about it.

SUV drivers should have to take a different set of classes as well just like motorcycles, semi's (CDL). Have an SUV endorsement so say.

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Old 09-01-2008, 10:18 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I agree on the test being re-taken every 10years. I almost killed an old woman yesterday. Even when I was screeching to a halt with the horn blaring the old bat didn't hear me one bit and scooted across the road in blissful ignorance or under the delusion that she is older and it won't be her fault. All the other drivers around me were astounded that the old woman stopped in the middle of traffic.
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:26 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnClark View Post
Small and light will never be safe. Its just a matter of physics.
Sorry, you got that backwards.

According to "an object in motion tends to stay in motion", the more massive (heavier) an object is, the more inertia it has, and the harder it is to stop once it is going.

If you hit a tree or something else that isn't going to move anyways, a less massive object will stop quicker than a more massive object.

"Safe", in terms of ability to dissapate energy is really a matter of design more than anything. That's why cars have bumpers and various parts of the car that are designed to bend and distort in a collision.

I remember in high-school, we had to watch these old films in driver's education class where they would crash cars into each other. They crashed VW bugs and some big old land yacht. The crashes were two VWs into each other, two big cars into each other, and then one of each into each other.

When the two VWs were crashed, they practically just bounced off each other, stopping very quickly.

The two large cars crashing into each other just kept crumpling into one huge mess stuck together.

Now, when the big car was crashed into the Bug, that wasn't real pretty, but which car was dangerous? When it was just bug vs bug, there was very little damage. The variable was the big car. (No, I am not saying VW Bugs were safe cars! The trunk in front is a BAD design from the point of frontal collision safety!)

Keep in mind that MOST collisions are SINGLE car. You lose control of the car and hit the curb, or a tree, or slide off the road. In all those situations, a lighter car will always stop quicker, and hit with less energy than a heavier car.

That's another reason why mini-vans were so popular and won a lot of safety awards. The were relatively large spacewise, so there was lots of room for the occupants inside, lots of room for crumple-zones, but they were still relatively NOT-heavy. They also had a relatively low center of gravity, so they didn't do roll-overs the way the heavier and higher center-of-gravity SUVs do.

Keep in mind that mass x velocity = momentum (how hard you hit!)

Anyways, we would all be better off driving slower, lighter vehicles.

When was the last time you heard of anyone getting killed from one golf cart or bicycle crashing into each other. (Not saying it can't happen, but there is just so much LESS energy there)

Cars don't kill, mass x velocity does.

Anyways, we would all be better off driving slower, lighter vehicles.
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Last edited by bennelson; 09-01-2008 at 10:31 AM..
 
Old 09-01-2008, 11:37 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Keep in mind that MOST collisions are SINGLE car. You lose control of the car and hit the curb, or a tree, or slide off the road. In all those situations, a lighter car will always stop quicker, and hit with less energy than a heavier car.

my first car was an opel corsa like in this first video mine was a purple 2 door variant with seatbelt tentioners but no airbags.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...html#post57746

after two months of driveing a combination of a wet worn roadsurface on wich watter pooled, a steep curve, bad car handling, a speed that was likely to fast for the circomstances and my inexperience (two months driveing) led to the car oversteering into a concrete darrier at about 70 km/h (43mph)

fortunatly for me i was starting to regain controle so i didn't hit the wall full frontal but glanced off it... the impact looked a bit like that video though. the front corner of the car looked competely gone and a wheel was torn off.

i walked away without a scratch, the car was totalled and the woodwork in front of the wall was all over the place.

when i went to the owner of the propperty later to pay for the damage, he tolled me i was the third person to crash into that wall. this was somehow reassuring that it wasn't completely my fault and that it was just a plain dangerous spot. all in all i was very lucky...but it showed me how quickly things can go wrong

so would i have been better off in a heavier vehicle? it might not have bounced off the wall but rather crushed into it along with me.
lets just say i'm not to compelled to get a corsa again, but my girlfriend has a ford fiesta wich is just the same size... it handles far better than the corsa and i don't mind borrowing it sometimes. in this case better handling would hanve been better than bigger

my next car was a 1987 kadett wich was slightly bigger but techically not much safer it was guite a light car... i almost got toalled when a student driver in a big brand new volvo made an illegal left turn just in front of me and all i could do was slam the brakes. when a got out there was more than a meter between the vehicles so i'd bounced off the volvo. a shorter stopping distance might have avoided the accident although i didn manage to slow down enough to prevent worse... good breaks and a short stopping distance are very important!

what i've learend from all this is that the way a car handles and the way it can be stopped are quite important when things go wrong.
i've also learend that most accidents seem to happen when people, often inexperienced misjuge a situation.
i've also learend that the faster you go the bigger the mess..
jugeing by where everything that wasn't attached to the car (like my glasses) went i'd say seatbelts are one of the best safety features in any car

driveing IS dangerous so all you can do is try to be carefull...
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Old 09-01-2008, 11:53 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I guess another place to look for information on size and weight vs safety is the race car industry.

Indy cars are VERY small and light! Of course the biggest part of that is so they have great acceleration, but it is also a HUGE concern for safety.

It is amazing the speeds at which these cars can hit a wall, and still have the driver walk away alive. (You bet they wear their seatbelts!)

The cars are light and also DESIGNED to break into smaller pieces, thus quickly loosing mass, thus momentum. IE-they break into little pieces to slow down really fast.

I'm not saying that Ford or GM is going to design cars that almost explode on impact like that, but why not take a cue from the racing industry about how light weight is safe.
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:23 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennelson View Post
I'm not saying that Ford or GM is going to design cars that almost explode on impact like that, but why not take a cue from the racing industry about how light weight is safe.
Then the Insurance industry steps in and rates the car "very expensive to repair in a crash".

It's one entity vs. another or with another. I'm not throwing conspiracy theories around, but they have to be "in cahoots" in some form.
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:57 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennelson View Post
I guess another place to look for information on size and weight vs safety is the race car industry.

Indy cars are VERY small and light! Of course the biggest part of that is so they have great acceleration, but it is also a HUGE concern for safety.

It is amazing the speeds at which these cars can hit a wall, and still have the driver walk away alive. (You bet they wear their seatbelts!)

The cars are light and also DESIGNED to break into smaller pieces, thus quickly loosing mass, thus momentum. IE-they break into little pieces to slow down really fast.

I'm not saying that Ford or GM is going to design cars that almost explode on impact like that, but why not take a cue from the racing industry about how light weight is safe.
I guess this post of yours shows you can't read through a thread to see what has already been posted. If not re-read post #17 in this thread.

Indy cars are not small as they have almost the same dimensions as a formula one car.

Having parts fly off cars is not a good idea when your car wrecks near pedestrians.

As for your previous post it looks like you got an F in physics. Its not the fall that kills you its the sudden stop at the end. It takes a lot more force to stop something(or someone) quickly. large cars have larger crumple zones that allow the passenger to be stopped over a longer period of time. The larger mass keeps this deceleration more consistent for the duration of the crash.

If these concepts are not obvious to you, please keep your inventions in the back yard and off the streets.

Also refer to post #22 in this thread. Read the quoted link and see the how facts stack up.
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Old 09-01-2008, 11:17 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Might be time to lock this thread, the tone of it seems to be going south.
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Old 09-01-2008, 11:41 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Might be time to lock this thread, the tone of it seems to be going south.
I am beginning to agree, this type of thread never goes anywhere. I will never start one again.

Just posted it so people would be informed of their options. Now all that is happening is argument.

No matter how unsafe a smaller car can be. Enough replacements of larger cars,would mean more small cars hitting small cars. Thus taking large cars out of equation. That was my whole purpose of this post. Weight would not be a factor if we all would downsize. Or atleast those of us who do not need a large truck, suv, car.

I understand there are certain people who could not use a small car, but I would say about 90% of SUV's on the road today are for prestige and the feeling of safety. That is all I have to say and my last post in this thread.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:00 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Closed

Per the implication of the thread starter and the mention (and indeed fact) of the back-and-forth discussion without further progress, I've made to decision to close the thread.

It's a heated discussion with passionate viewpoints on both sides -- kinda like Politics.

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