Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

freebeard- It's parallel parked at the curb. In front of a white picket fence, no less!

I concede there is no proof it ever moves. It appears to have a Type II portal axle so it can roll those reversed and banded wheels. Possibly 16" wide fives.

Best New Beetle wheels:


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/po...uote&p=8937783

[Xist]

I bounced my head off a non-chopped New Beetle back window!

[Xist]

Do we need a dedicated thread about me and other peoples' wives?

No, no we do not.

Do we need a thread about my failed jokes?

[sob]



I do not know if there are any categories where one can predict the future, but since 1932 - 1940 gas prices have had huge cycles, but definitely an overall upward trend. However, accounting for inflation, it got cheaper and cheaper until 1998, and got increasingly more expensive since then. $1.02 in 1998 ($1.48 inflated) compared to $2.737 today, that is an average of an 8.2¢ increase every year for twenty-one years!

I am sure there are people that think that gas prices will stay "low" indefinitely, but I have never heard anyone make that claim.

I keep seeing comments on here that gas prices will go back up again and everyone will be sorry, but it seems the point where gas prices cause changes in behavior are always higher than we would expect--and short-lived.

Fuel economy seems to increase year after year, although I cannot find a neat table like for gas prices, but that took altogether too much searching. I found this: Average Fuel Efficiency of U.S. Light Duty Vehicles

I would make a nice and neat graph, but my various versions of Office are not cooperating.

I know that Prius fanboys talk give anecdotal evidence of hybrid batteries lasting ridiculously long times, but there are also ones that fail under warranty.

Many people on here say that hybrids compensate for lazy driving.

This is the most recent article that I can find about hybrid ROI: The Cost Of Driving A Hybrid

They say a hybrid starts to save you money after 4.5 - 11.9 years and the traction battery needs to be replaced after about 12 years (YMMV).

Is a Yaris comparable with a Prius One?

This lets me compare hybrid and non-hybrid versions of the same car: Can a Hybrid Save Me Money?

I just looked at the Corolla. The hybrid is exactly $3,000 more than the standard version, but somehow gets 57.57% better fuel economy.

It says the ROI is 6.6 years, but 7.2 if you consider interest on the additional loan amount.

Of course, electric fanboys talk about batteries being vastly better and cheaper in a short period of time.

I would not purchase a hybrid and count on that.

Do you guys expect gas prices to rise faster than fuel economy or visa-versa?

How much do you think fuel economy has improved on gas-only cars?

[Xist]

My other question comes from these numbers I gathered, which may or may not be accurate:

Civic generations:
1972 1,500 pounds
1979 1,653 pounds (average)
1983 1,731 pounds
1988 2,040 pounds (average)
1991 2,265 pounds (average)
1996 2,519 pounds
2001 2,523 pounds (average)
2006 2,600 pounds
2012 2,746 pounds (average)
2016 2,852 pounds (average)

Fit:
2001 2,390 pounds
2008 2,359 pounds (lighter?!)
2014 2,398 pounds (average)
(source: Wikipedia and Honda Curb Weight)

Hyundai Accent:
1994 2,125
1999 2,268
2005 2,450
2012 2,446 (lighter?!)
2018 2,591
(source: Wikipedia and Google's suggestion)

The Civic increased its weight by 90% in 44 years.

I am sure many of us envy that.

So, just under half a percent per year.

In 2001 Honda introduced the Fit with a weight between the 1991 and 1996 Civic. The Civic has gained another 329 pounds (13%, .72% per year), while the Fit has gained 8 pounds in 13 years.

Great job!

The trend is not for bigger and bigger economy cars, but for crossovers, trucks, and SUVs, although undoubtedly at some point gas prices will go up enough for this trend to change, at least for another cycle.

The Fit is not getting fat, but the Accent is, 466 pounds and 22% in 24 years (.9% per year).

Do you think there is any chance that Hyundai and perhaps other manufacturers will introduce new and smaller cars?

[Bicycle Bob]

I have never seen a joke or personal conversation here that was worth the clicks, but there's no way to know what has been posted next if I don't check.
I am barely interested in the price of fuel. It is not a very significant budget item. I'm interested in not burning oil because I can't clean up after myself, and our combined pollution, etc, is killing the planet.
There is technical fascination here, because there is no theoretical minimum energy needed for a round trip.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Not sure if the marketing approach of featuring it as the "SUV among the compacts" has something to do with it, but I see a reasonable amount of the Renault Kwid

[Bicycle Bob]

I wonder how many more years the air will have to endure those separate "brake cooling ducts" emulating race cars.

[Piotrsko]

probably until friction brakes become obsolete

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

I do not know if there are any categories where one can predict the future, but since 1932 - 1940 gas prices have had huge cycles, but definitely an overall upward trend. However, accounting for inflation, it got cheaper and cheaper until 1998, and got increasingly more expensive since then. $1.02 in 1998 ($1.48 inflated) compared to $2.737 today, that is an average of an 8.2¢ increase every year for twenty-one years!

I am sure there are people that think that gas prices will stay "low" indefinitely, but I have never heard anyone make that claim.

Fuel economy seems to increase year after year, although I cannot find a neat table like for gas prices, but that took altogether too much searching.

I just looked at the Corolla. The hybrid is exactly $3,000 more than the standard version, but somehow gets 57.57% better fuel economy.

It says the ROI is 6.6 years, but 7.2 if you consider interest on the additional loan amount.

Do you guys expect gas prices to rise faster than fuel economy or visa-versa?

I've searched a bit for average fuel economy for each state and not had much luck. I was curious how much of an impact CAFE had on improving fuel economy.

I think there's a chance fuel prices will remain relatively low for centuries, especially if we preemptively cripple the economy, or some combination of that and rational conservation coupled with improvements of alternative energy.

Hybrids probably never pencil out, because it isn't just the extra expense and the extra interest payments, but the lost investment potential of the money saved by not buying a hybrid. I make similar arguments against higher education for people that don't require it for a particular career. Not only is it expensive, and not only is the value of an undergrad degree becoming less valuable over time, and not only are there interest payments on loans... but you miss out on time that could be spent earning and investing money.

There's more potential for fuel prices to increase than there is for fuel economy to improve. There's diminishing returns on fuel economy, and the lowest hanging fruit has already been plucked. It would require radical lifestyle changes for people to adopt streamlined form-factors; a trend which we're moving in the opposite direction of.

[Xist]

If you can drive like an idiot and get 50 MPG, I submit that you are more likely to drive unnecessarily than someone that needs to work hard to get [checks log] 34 MPG.

Except for yesterday. I really should have stopped earlier and verified that Office Lady gave me half an hour to make a 90-minute drive.

I thought my GPS was not working, so I drove the direction I thought it was.

I was wrong, but I did not have any stop lights to check my GPS.