Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-24-2019, 09:17 PM   #341 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,774

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - CBR600 - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - Dodge/Cummins - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)

Model Y - '24 Tesla Y LR AWD

Pacifica Hybrid - '21 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid
90 day: 57.45 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,321
Thanked 4,474 Times in 3,439 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
I like charts too.

Since 2010 average fleet fuel economy is up 14% while the price of gasoline has dropped 45%. Why? CAFE requirements require auto makers to continue to improve fuel economy.
Not saying it doesn't have an effect, and not saying CA can't govern themselves the way that makes the most sense to them. Just sayin' these sorts of attempts to reduce fuel consumption open the door to corruption and creative loopholes that create unintended inefficiencies.

I'm as excited about the improvement in MPG as anyone, but we've gone about it the wrong way.

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-24-2019, 11:02 PM   #342 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,601

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,454 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Not saying it doesn't have an effect, and not saying CA can't govern themselves the way that makes the most sense to them. Just sayin' these sorts of attempts to reduce fuel consumption open the door to corruption and creative loopholes that create unintended inefficiencies.

I'm as excited about the improvement in MPG as anyone, but we've gone about it the wrong way.

That was more a comment on your comment the economic factors have a great impact than CAFE standards. The fact is that the average fuel economy of cars sold in the USA almost perfectly track the CAFE requirements.

The NHTSA aggressively increased mpg standards from 1978 - 1987, held them steady from 1998 to 2004, and then increased them aggressively from 2005 to 2027. Look at the graph.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2019, 12:53 AM   #343 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,668

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touraeg
Thanks: 305
Thanked 1,187 Times in 813 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Such a niche company would likely choose to just pay the $56 per mpg fine



There is no carve out for medium and heavy duty truck. They aren’t part of CAFE as they have their own emission and fuel economy standards. Phase 1 covered 2011 to 2020 and Phase II is 2021- 2027. Phase 2 requires a 25% reduction in fuel consumption. .
But that in itself IS a carve out. So at some point if they reduce the abilities on the better selling 1500 trucks, the owners will just all move into 2500 and 3500 trucks because they are exempt. Then they will go to F650s if they have to, or even the aforementioned Kenworth.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2019, 01:25 AM   #344 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 12,233

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 34.2 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 35.39 mpg (US)

Don't hit me bro - '05 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 30.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,254
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,722 Posts
Too bad they stopped making real trucks like the Kodiak TopKick a decade ago!
__________________
"Oh if you use math, reason, and logic you will be hated."--OilPan4
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2019, 02:33 AM   #345 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,601

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,454 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
But that in itself IS a carve out. So at some point if they reduce the abilities on the better selling 1500 trucks, the owners will just all move into 2500 and 3500 trucks because they are exempt. Then they will go to F650s if they have to, or even the aforementioned Kenworth.
The average transaction price for a full size truck was $48,377 in 2018. Why does the typical buyer pick a F-150 today instead of a F-450 for almost the same price? The F-450 comes standard with a 6.7L diesel that makes 450 hp and 935 lb-ft of torque. Crew Cab / 8 foot bed / dual rear wheels. The F-450 has almost 3 times the payload and tow rating of a F-150. If we are going by working truck specs the F-450 is the clear choice.

Medium duty trucks have different standards because they are actually work vehicles. Very few people want to drive a truck sprung to carry 6250 lbs that is 22 feet long.


Nobody is reducing the abilities of the 1500 trucks. They are getting bigger, more powerful, AND more fuel efficient year after year. When I graduated high school in 1996 the most powerful F150 had a 5.8L V8 that made 210 hp / 325 lb-ft of torque and got 13 mpg. Today the least powerful F-150 makes 290 hp / 265 lb-ft and gets 22 mpg. The most powerful is 375 hp / 470 lb ft and gets 19 mpg
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2019, 08:41 AM   #346 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 4,150

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,784
Thanked 1,922 Times in 1,246 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
The average transaction price for a full size truck was $48,377 in 2018. Why does the typical buyer pick a F-150 today instead of a F-450 for almost the same price?
By and large, it's because they don't need trucks. If they bought the payload capacity they really needed, they'd be driving Camrys and Civics.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fat Charlie For This Useful Post:
Xist (09-25-2019)
Old 09-25-2019, 09:36 AM   #347 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,668

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touraeg
Thanks: 305
Thanked 1,187 Times in 813 Posts
Still not even close to a 54.5 average. I know 54.5 is not the actual EPA rating but needless to say pickups will have to do even better gains, from 2020 to 2025 than they did from 1996 to 2020. It's just not going to happen while maintaining current capabilities especially while also cracking down on diesels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2019, 10:57 AM   #348 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,601

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,454 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
Still not even close to a 54.5 average. I know 54.5 is not the actual EPA rating but needless to say pickups will have to do even better gains, from 2020 to 2025 than they did from 1996 to 2020. It's just not going to happen while maintaining current capabilities especially while also cracking down on diesels.
Full size trucks do not have to get to 54.5 mpg, they only have to get to 23 mpg by 2025. Ram is meeting the 2025 standard today with a 305 hp gas engine.

Ford shows that even truck buyers are willing to adopt new technology if it matches their expectations. In mid-2017 only 25% of Ford F-150's sold had a V8 engine.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
Xist (09-25-2019)
Old 09-25-2019, 11:46 AM   #349 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,668

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touraeg
Thanks: 305
Thanked 1,187 Times in 813 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Full size trucks do not have to get to 54.5 mpg, they only have to get to 23 mpg by 2025. Ram is meeting the 2025 standard today with a 305 hp gas engine.

Ford shows that even truck buyers are willing to adopt new technology if it matches their expectations. In mid-2017 only 25% of Ford F-150's sold had a V8 engine.


Its 23 now but this shows 30 mpg by 2025. And that being average not what the best are doing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2019, 12:06 PM   #350 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
teoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 1,245

A3 - '12 Audi A3
Thanks: 65
Thanked 225 Times in 186 Posts
Those graphs and numbers show very good progress, however, the repair costs of these vehivles will increase dramatically.

A vehicle that is too expensive to repair the moment the warranty runs out does not seem smart to me. Unless vehicles are sold with a 25 year warranty.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com