Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

With the way things are, we don't know when the used car market will return to normal. Hopefully soon, but it could be years and may never be the same again. After all, industries try to maximize profits, not give out cheap or free products to the masses.

If it does take over 5 years, 10 years, 15 years to go back to normal, what would be a good economy car?

The new generation Chevy Trax is getting good reviews. New they range from $21,500 to $25,000. In 5 years they should be pretty cheap and 30 mpg isn't that bad for a non-hybrid.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

The new generation Chevy Trax is getting good reviews. New they range from $21,500 to $25,000. In 5 years they should be pretty cheap and 30 mpg isn't that bad for a non-hybrid.

The important thing is that it gets a person from point A to point B. But hopefully there'll be a cheap sedan too by that time, and not just a bunch of crossovers

[Bicycle Bob]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

The important thing is that it gets a person from point A to point B. But hopefully there'll be a cheap sedan too by that time, and not just a bunch of crossovers

Well, if you are not concerned about style, using your Trax involves hauling around a ton and a half of steel representing the original buyer's self-image.
I just don't see any good options, nor can I imagine conditions in 2035.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

Well, if you are not concerned about style, using your Trax involves hauling around a ton and a half of steel representing the original buyer's self-image.
I just don't see any good options, nor can I imagine conditions in 2035.

I guess I have a concern about style, but I'm kind of anti-style. I don't wan't people thinking I buy my tools to promote my self-image. Hence, why I use a cheap, dumb, basic flip phone. It's perhaps why I also dislike SUV's because they are popular.

I also dislike SUV's because there's plenty of evidence that since they became more popular pedestrian safety has gone down. I now know 10 neighbors that have been hit by a car, all of them by SUV's (including crossovers) and pickup trucks. Crossovers are a wasteful design that doesn't do anything except help people with bad hips.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I also dislike SUV's because there's plenty of evidence that since they became more popular pedestrian safety has gone down. I now know 10 neighbors that have been hit by a car, all of them by SUV's (including crossovers) and pickup trucks. Crossovers are a wasteful design that doesn't do anything except help people with bad hips.

You should like the Trax then because it is classified as a station wagon. Too low to the ground to classify as light truck. The author of the review I read said the Trax reminded them of driving the Cruze Hatchback.

It is always nice when manufacturers sneak in a wagon - even if they have to pretend it is something else. In my opinion a hatchback or wagon is always superior than a sedan. Far too little utility in a sedan for the footprint.

[Bicycle Bob]

I had both a notchback and a fastback version of the 2nd generation Toyota Celica (The first was known as Camaro-San.) and really had no use for more utility when I had the notchback. The little trunk was super-convenient for shopping. However, I had the fastback when real estate went nuts, and I moved into it to seek better conditions. It also hauled firewood.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

You should like the Trax then because it is classified as a station wagon. Too low to the ground to classify as light truck. The author of the review I read said the Trax reminded them of driving the Cruze Hatchback.

It is always nice when manufacturers sneak in a wagon - even if they have to pretend it is something else. In my opinion a hatchback or wagon is always superior than a sedan. Far too little utility in a sedan for the footprint.

Ya, I can see a sedan as having less utility. The pros for a sedan IMO and IMC (in my circumstances) are:

1. A sedan should be more aerodynamic which gets (slightly) better fuel mileage.
2. There is a bit more safety when your luggage is compartmentalized.
3. As an amateur radio operator a trunk lid doubles as a second ground plane, and its smaller size is fine for a VHF/UHF antenna, leaving space on the roof for an HF antenna, considered by some to be the optimal multi-band setup.

But yes, there is a penalty for lowering the luggage capacity to a trunk. Looking at RAV4's vs. Camrys a few years ago, they were almost the same in most interior dimentions, except the RAV4 had about double the luggage capacity.

That, and a hatch will fit a bigger object, which is even better when the rear seats lay flat or are removeable.

What I like about this forum is the people on here have a way of convincing me of thinking the opposite that my armchair intuition tells me.

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

I had both a notchback and a fastback version of the 2nd generation Toyota Celica (The first was known as Camaro-San.) and really had no use for more utility when I had the notchback. The little trunk was super-convenient for shopping. However, I had the fastback when real estate went nuts, and I moved into it to seek better conditions. It also hauled firewood.

If I had the money and room for one, I'd get and use the capacity of a full sized van. I could even find use cases for a bus that could hold dozens of passengers if I had one.

But since saving money is important to me, something with at least 4 seats and that can hold a couple bags of groceries is all the utility I really, really need. Not that more utility wouldn't be welcome if it costs about the same.

[Bicycle Bob]

In a meeting of generally "green" folk who still drove the average mix of cars I asked why. None could remember the last time they had filled four seats or needed more cargo room; they just liked having the options. Making two trips, picking up a trailer, or renting something bigger on occasion did not seem to occur to them as possibilities. I do suspect that there is an instinct at play, wanting the ability to keep the family together while fleeing a disaster, or showing off.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

In a meeting of generally "green" folk who still drove the average mix of cars I asked why. None could remember the last time they had filled four seats or needed more cargo room; they just liked having the options. Making two trips, picking up a trailer, or renting something bigger on occasion did not seem to occur to them as possibilities. I do suspect that there is an instinct at play, wanting the ability to keep the family together while fleeing a disaster, or showing off.

I do have a small flatbed trailer that can haul a few sheets of drywall with my car.

When the pandemic hit the rental places ended up without hardly any vehicles, for whatever reason. I couldn't rent a van or pickup at the local Uhaul when I needed one. I also couldn't rent a passenger van or even a mini van from the car rental, the closest one that had one was over 200 miles away. And that was even trying to find one several months away, they just no longer existed.

Rental vehicles are back, but I don't see them as a reliable option anymore.

We have an emergency plan in place for picking up all family and other friends and meeting points even in other states, along with how we would communicate if the phones went out. We all keep our fuel tanks at least 1/2 full. If need be would could fit more than the legal 5 in our sedan. One time in Mexico we fit 8 people into our '93 2-door Mazda 323. Having a plan is better than just buying a big vehicle and hoping it'll be useful.

The number one reason I hear why people by the cars they do, which are nearly always SUV's or pickups or crossovers, is that they feel safer in them.

Doing the opposite
I did go clear to the opposite end of practicallity once when I bought a used Nissan Leaf. The idea was that some 95% of my driving (on the guess-o-meter, not actually measured) was around town and within some 15 miles from my home. The other 5% we could rent or just wait at charging stations.

In the end it just seemed to hard to pull off. Once we finally needed to call a tow truck I decided that that was the end of that idea. I sold the Leaf and we got the Avalon.

My conclusion
I feel that where I went wrong is when I decided to stray away from the ol' 1985 VW diesel Golf. That car was extremely economical and just didn't want to die. I was a bit diswaded to keep the car because it did leave huge plumes of black smoke everywhere I went and I was a little concerned about the safety of that vehicle. But I think if I could do it all over again I'd just have kept the Golf until it no longer was feasible to fix.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

You should like the Trax

The Chevy Trax gets a score of 57 compared to 64 with the Hyundai Venue from Consumer Reports with lower predicted reliability and lower predicted owner satisfaction.