Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Here's another: Toyota CEO: "We're Switching To Direct To Consumer!"

I know sandy Munro despises 'stealerships'.

He's not the only one. I'm always saying that haggling over the price of a car or mattress is a backwards practice pretty much exclusive to 3rd world countries (or vehicles and mattresses in the US).

Of course Toyota will switch to direct to consumer, because every manufacturer will have to at some point to remain competitive. It's a cutthroat industry that is in a consolidation phase.

While Tesla grows ~50% year over year, legacy manufacturers struggle to retain existing sales volume.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

He's not the only one. I'm always saying that haggling over the price of a car or mattress is a backwards practice pretty much exclusive to 3rd world countries (or vehicles and mattresses in the US).

Of course Toyota will switch to direct to consumer, because every manufacturer will have to at some point to remain competitive. It's a cutthroat industry that is in a consolidation phase.

While Tesla grows ~50% year over year, legacy manufacturers struggle to retain existing sales volume.

Tesla isn't growing 50% YoY. Tesla sold 1.81 million vehicles in 2023 - up 38% from 1.31 million in 2022. In 2022 they grew 40% over 2021.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

Tesla isn't growing 50% YoY. Tesla sold 1.81 million vehicles in 2023 - up 38% from 1.31 million in 2022. In 2022 they grew 40% over 2021.

Of course I embellished the numbers, but any legacy manufacturer would be ecstatic to grow 5% YoY, not to mention 40%.

Reminds me of the inmate that said "she made me do it". There's always something else to blame.

I could defeat Tesla safety measures, therefore Tesla is to blame. It was clear that I'm solely responsible for the safe operation of my vehicle, therefore Tesla is to blame if I royally screw up.

The fact that some randos are recording the incident tells me the people responsible were drunk, and fled the scene as quickly as possible. If the Tesla were to blame, the totally sober people would be recoding the incident as evidence.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Of course I embellished the numbers, but any legacy manufacturer would be ecstatic to grow 5% YoY, not to mention 40%.

Other automakers don't have P/E ratios of 77 based on the promise that they will grow 50%, every year, for 10 years.

Tesla's numbers would be great - if Musk didn't promise the moon and stars.

[freebeard]

Of course I embellished the numbers...

And no remorse?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

Tesla's numbers would be great - if Musk didn't promise the moon and stars.

I don't disagree. That said, even Musk says Tesla is overvalued. Earlier in the company history, he said he expected Tesla to fail, since that's what new auto manufacturers do.

Originally Posted by freebeard

And no remorse?

I haven't decided yet if I should speak hyperbolically as a persuasion technique, or precisely to avoid conversations where I say "nobody ever...", and then someone replies "I know a person".

I used to always speak with precision, and then you started me listening to Scott Adams.

No remorse?

[freebeard]

I used to always speak with precision, and then you started me listening to Scott Adams.

So you're saying that you are highly suggestible?

I haven't decided yet....

Learn weasel words.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

So you're saying that you are highly suggestible?

Yes, in a way. I'm willing to entertain ideas that have a coherent train of thought.

Have you decided if it's better to be correct, or effective in moving people generally in a positive direction?

I'm drawn to personality types like Socrates or Jesus where they just say things as they understand it, as precisely as can be described, and let others deal with their emotions about it.

On the dark side of that coin, I can also appreciate the opening line of The Departed where Jack says "I never wanted to be a product of my environment, I wanted my environment to be a product of me".

Both are a rejection of what is, and a substitution for what ought to be. One is sacrificial; the other highly susceptible to corruption.

Well, talking through that seems to clarify things, but I'm open to suggestion.

[freebeard]

Suggestions?

I'm drawn to personality types like Socrates or Jesus where they just say things as they understand it, as accurately as can be described, and let others deal with their emotions about it.

R. Buckminster Fuller, child of the New England Transcendentalists, reframed the Lord's Prayer every night.

Originally Posted by DDG

https://www.themarginalian.org › 2013 › 07 › 12 › buckminster-fuller-ever-rethinking-the-lords-prayer
Ever Rethinking the Lord's Prayer: Buckminster Fuller Revises Scripture ...
In his 1981 classic Critical Path (public library), legendary architect, designer, inventor, theorist and futurist Buckminster Fuller (July 12, 1895-July 1, 1983) explores the subject with his singular blend of philosophical fringe-think, love of science, and cosmic poetics. He recalls being heavily influenced, at...

I can also appreciate the opening line of The Departed where Jack says "I never wanted to be a product of my environment, I wanted my environment to be a product of me".

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it." -- Steve Jobs

[Bicycle Bob]

Interesting diversion. I grew up thinking that a radical new idea only needed to be proven reasonably well and published to be accepted, like Relativity was. Now, I can't think of another great idea that didn't have to be sold almost as hard as a bad one. When John Cleese happens to meet someone who he thinks is very good at their profession, he asks them how many of their peers really understand it, rather than depending on what worked yesterday, and gets estimates from 5% to 20%, averaging around 12. Dunning-Kruger syndrome keeps the majority from knowing that they are actually floundering, or that some others are not.