Some real Volt numbers for the curious...

[DrInnovation]

Originally Posted by wainair

SNIP

Dollars and cents you will always have a better bottom line with a older paid for car and likewise if it was only about dollars and cents I would have been better off buying something like a base Mazda2 or Nissan Sentra new than the Volt. For me it is not just about the bottom line(though that is part of it). There are a whole host of factors that went into my decision to buy the Volt and not all of them were logical or financially sound! LOL

Thanks folks for the good points folks. I love the conversation!

Actually a used car is not always better. Consider the calculator and examples
A free calculator for Economy, Hybrid and Electric Cars

In most cases a used (5 year old) Honda Civic, in 8-year total cost of ownership is not as good a new Hybrid, EV (leaf) or Volt. It all depends on pricing of gas, electric and the type of driving you do. It would have been cheaper to keep my 17year old honda (33-37mpg) a while longer. But the Volt is not just about penny. Compared to buying a new BWM or a Lexus or even a PIP/Leaf, it will save me money. More importantly its a great car to drive and I'm doing mostly renewable energy for driving!

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by DrInnovation

In most cases a used (5 year old) Honda Civic, in 8-year total cost of ownership is not as good a new Hybrid, EV (leaf) or Volt.

Yes, but a 5 year old Civic (or 5 year old anything) isn't what we mean when we suggest getting an older car. It'd be anywhere from mid-80s up to say '00, the sort of car that you buy for cash, and don't feel pinched doing it.

[dcb]

yup, generally speaking, the sort of car you wouldn't mind modding too.

[cfg83]

DrInnovation -

Originally Posted by DrInnovation

Actually a used car is not always better. Consider the calculator and examples
A free calculator for Economy, Hybrid and Electric Cars

In most cases a used (5 year old) Honda Civic, in 8-year total cost of ownership is not as good a new Hybrid, EV (leaf) or Volt. It all depends on pricing of gas, electric and the type of driving you do. It would have been cheaper to keep my 17year old honda (33-37mpg) a while longer. But the Volt is not just about penny. Compared to buying a new BWM or a Lexus or even a PIP/Leaf, it will save me money. More importantly its a great car to drive and I'm doing mostly renewable energy for driving!

Pretty cool website. I like how they portray different driving usage.

I think if you have the skilzz or a trusty mechanic and a network forum dedicated to your make/model, then a used car is almost always better. But without that the website is useful.

The Volt/BMW/Lexus examples are front-loaded with higher debt and insurance costs. If you can afford the higher initial cost, then great. On the other hand, the front-loading does not offer significant advantage over the used Civic.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Volt and hope it succeeds on every level, but I can't ju$tify it.

CarloSW2

[markf]

I've bought Volt #5083 towards the end of Oct 2011 and currently have just over 5,500 miles, 79 lifetime mpg to date for the 90 days I've had the car. Basically I drive to work on battery power and mostly gas to get home. I generally tank up every 2+ weeks

My daily commute is 65 miles roundtrip, 2 hrs of commuting time to APG, MD over 2 lane roads. About 1/2 of the trip is 50-55 mph, and the rest is 35-45 with traffic lights. Mountain mode isn't much use to me as the high speed stuff happens near home, and one has to burn through 2/3 of the battery's electrons when you are fully charged before you can hold the last 1/3 in reserve, but by then the speeds are slow so battery travel is ideal.

I have gotten as high as 114 mpg (this does not count the cost of electricity, which for me is about $1.10 for a full charge) and 44 miles on battery alone on some warm days in Oct and Nov, but last week (first week of Jan 2012) was the lowest at 62 mpg (29 miles on battery alone) when the ambient temp was a god awful 9 degrees. I hit the road before 5 AM and I like it REALLY warm, so 62 is likely to be about as bad as the mpg will ever be for me since I pre-heat the car with maxed blowers, run with headlights/high beams, heater set on 80 degrees, heating vent blowers on setting 3, and seat heaters on 2 of 3.

I consider the cost of the Volt very reasonable, as least in my case. In addtion to the $7,500 Federal tax credit there was $2,000 credit for MD, $3,300 off in customer points off from my GM/Masrtercard, $2,000 available in dealer cash (ie, unadvertised rebate), and $6,500 trade for my 2008 Smart Fortwo Cabrio with 50K mi.

The Volt is fun and thrifty, and my lifetime mpg should rise significantly once winter ends since the weather has been fairly cold since I bought the car.

[NeilBlanchard]

Mark welcome to EM,

Are you counting the electricity like the EPA does as 33.7kWh / gallon? If so, how are you measuring the electricity?

Thanks for sharing your experience in the real world.

[cfg83]

markf -

Originally Posted by markf

I've bought Volt #5083 towards the end of Oct 2011 and currently have just over 5,500 miles, 79 lifetime mpg to date for the 90 days I've had the car. Basically I drive to work on battery power and mostly gas to get home. I generally tank up every 2+ weeks

My daily commute is 65 miles roundtrip, 2 hrs of commuting time to APG, MD over 2 lane roads. About 1/2 of the trip is 50-55 mph, and the rest is 35-45 with traffic lights. Mountain mode isn't much use to me as the high speed stuff happens near home, and one has to burn through 2/3 of the battery's electrons when you are fully charged before you can hold the last 1/3 in reserve, but by then the speeds are slow so battery travel is ideal.

...

Hmmmm, interesting. I am at about 75 miles round trip + worse(?) traffic + better climate. If you can average 79 MPG then I am guessing I could average 70 MPG.

When the time comes I will give the Volt a chance. I doubt the incentives will "add up" for me but you never know.

CarloSW2

[markf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Mark welcome to EM,

Are you counting the electricity like the EPA does as 33.7kWh / gallon? If so, how are you measuring the electricity?

Thanks for sharing your experience in the real world.

I really don't measure electricity at all in the sense you mean, I work all my numbers based purely on my selfish out of pocket costs. Kwh rates in my part of MD (as well as gasoline prices for that matter) are really quite reasonable compared to many parts of the country, < $.09/khw, or about $1.10 per full battery 'fill-up'. That $1.10, in real work money terms, is about the cost of 1/3 of a gallon of gas. So while the Volt continually monitors my gas vs battery usage and tells me the overall mpg, that 79 mpg lifetime does not include the cost of electricity.

My lifetime numbers to date are 2,812 ev (battery) + 2,402 gas = 5,214 miles. Overall I've averaged 33.4 mpg running on gas, which means for the 2,402 miles I've driven 'batteryless' I've burned thru 72 gallons of gas.

BUT - my 2,812 ev miles were not w/o cost, and at my favorable kwh rates they equate to a cost equivalent to approx 28 gal of fuel based on that 1 full battery charge = the cost of 1/3 of a gallon of gas nonsense I mentioned above.

So putting this whole business it into a gasoline-centric fuel cost perspective, I went 5,214 miles on 72 gal of gas + 28 equiv cost gals of gas, meaning 5,214 mi/100 gal = 52 mpg cost equiv, about the same as a Prius. If I drove shorter trips my costs would be much less than a Prius, and must more if the trips were longer, but I do expect my mpge to increase once I get past February, and I was at 91 mpg lifetime before January began.

And, of course, none of this anal-retentive number crunching takes into account the Volt being a hugely cool ride.

[markf]

Originally Posted by cfg83

markf -



Hmmmm, interesting. I am at about 75 miles round trip + worse(?) traffic + better climate. If you can average 79 MPG then I am guessing I could average 70 MPG.

When the time comes I will give the Volt a chance. I doubt the incentives will "add up" for me but you never know.

CarloSW2

My mpg is falling rapidly for the winter, it was just 62 (not counting electricity costs) during that 9 degree day.

I do expect to be up around 80-85 once I have a full year under my belt, but my current 79 won’t hold up thru Jan and Feb before it rebounds. The morning vehicle pre-heat kills 1-2 miles of battery range, ditto the 'OMG I'm leaving work and its freezing out again' late afternoon pre-heat. My desire for a nice hot car will do me in until the weather changes for the 3 warm seasons - then watch out!

[trooper Tdiesel]

how far has any one gone on a single full charge?

any one cracked the 50 mile mark?

where at a fixed 0.06 power rate 24 hours a day, so that would be a good bit less then the $1.10 a charge im seeing