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Old 11-04-2011, 12:39 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Yes, virtually all Volt drivers are charging the battery daily, and so the ~8+ gallons of gas in the tank last for over 1,000 miles on average.

Of course the electricity costs something, and of course it should be counted in the overall MPGe. The EPA says the Combined mileage is 93MPGe, so I'm sure that by using a Volt with a large majority of the time in EV mode, that this will easily raise the overall efficiency.

What is the useable capacity on the Volt battery pack? Is it ~12kWh? If it drives 40 miles on that, and if you use the EPA's equivalency of 33.7kWh/gallon, then the Volt gets 112MPGe in EV mode. If you drive it 50 miles then it gets 140MPGe, and if you are a leadfoot or it is *really* cold and you only manage 30 miles, that equals 84MPGe.

If you drive 40 miles a day for 18 days, and then drive 350 mile on 1 day (40 miles on electricity and 310 on gas), you would use ~228kWh = 6.77 gallons + 8.5 gallons used for 310 miles (~36.5MPG in charging mode) that totals 15.27 gallons equivalent used to travel 1,070 miles = ~70MPGe overall.

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Old 11-04-2011, 02:20 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dcb View Post
Specifically there is an energy cost there. And using dollars to compare electricity at the wall to liquid fuel is not a good basis for comparison. You
*could* say it is, but then why shell out $40k for a car if money is a concern. Tracking fuel and KWH together but separately is only fair.

How much less would it cost if they left out the fart box that so many consumers don't want? (and which makes the "Volt" title even more suspect).

How much sooner could it have been to market without the ICE and all the EPA regs and etc? Isn't the appeal of an EV it's simplicity? What consumer wouldn't want to have options? GM wasn't listening.
The fart box as you put it was the easy part, it was off the shelf. I would have liked a pure BEV but at current battery tech levels it wouldn't have met my needs. I know I couldn't do my commute in a Leaf. I don't know what the deal is with the EPA. I find they contradict themselves so much I try and ignore most of what they say. The car itself gives you a readout of kw's used and you can check the mileage on the trip odometer so you can figure out your miles/kw if you want. I still don't understand the mumbo jumbo they have concocted with the MPGe. It seems to me to be a dumbed down number with too many variables built into it to make it of any real use when trying to describe the Volt. I think GM learned the limitations of a pure BEV with the EV1 and they wanted to address the range issues in the most cost effective way they could and the result was the Volt. They do say they are going to be releasing a BEV version of the Sonic called the Spark in 2013. It will be much less expensive. Maybe that is more up your ally?

And I do think there is a cost issue there in that the car is still very economical, it's just that your paying up front. I'd much rather give my $40000 up front to a company that is investing in EV technology and building plants in North America than buying a smaller less expensive ICE car, paying out more and more over the next five years in little bites to OPEC producers who don't reinvest in our economies. I say five years because that is the break even point they say that the Volt's savings will have paid for the added expense of the car. Also to me it is just as much about where my money is going as to how much of it I'm spending. I'd rather have it stay in the North American economy than to go overseas to gold plate some princes Porsche in the desert!
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Yes, virtually all Volt drivers are charging the battery daily, and so the ~8+ gallons of gas in the tank last for over 1,000 miles on average.

Of course the electricity costs something, and of course it should be counted in the overall MPGe. The EPA says the Combined mileage is 93MPGe, so I'm sure that by using a Volt with a large majority of the time in EV mode, that this will easily raise the overall efficiency.

What is the useable capacity on the Volt battery pack? Is it ~12kWh? If it drives 40 miles on that, and if you use the EPA's equivalency of 33.7kWh/gallon, then the Volt gets 112MPGe in EV mode. If you drive it 50 miles then it gets 140MPGe, and if you are a leadfoot or it is *really* cold and you only manage 30 miles, that equals 84MPGe.

If you drive 40 miles a day for 18 days, and then drive 350 mile on 1 day, you would use ~228kWh = 6.77 gallons + 8.5 gallons used for 310 miles (~36.5MPG in charging mode) that totals 15.27 gallons equivalent used to travel 1,070 miles = ~70MPGe overall.
Well explained Neil! Though I'm still just concerned about my petroleum consumption as most of my electricity in Ontario comes from Hydroelectric plants and a smidge of Nuclear. So still all I'm paying attention to is my overall mpg. In the future I'm sure I will pay attention to the mpge figure more as we all become more energy aware!


PS. just as a side thought, the MPGe might give you and efficiency reading but it doesn't really help you if you are trying to figure how much a car will cost to operate.... at least not like how mpg works. For that I would rather have a miles per kilowatt figure if I were buying a BEV, to be able to more easily compare cost and efficiency between different models. I still don't like MPGe.
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Last edited by wainair; 11-04-2011 at 03:21 PM.. Reason: adding the ps
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:52 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Right, 228kWh X $0.12 (which I think is the US average?) = $27.36 / 760 = ~3.6 cents per mile
8.5 X $3.449 (what I paid yesterday) = $29.32 / 310 = ~9.5 cents per mile

Total cost is $56.68 / 1,070 = ~5.3 cents per mile
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Old 11-05-2011, 02:08 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I look at it buy this. for numbers sake take the volt at 40K and then new focus that comes in at 20k. how much fuel and maintance coast will it take to make up 20K? Last i did the math on my end I would have to keep it for about 250K miles. and most people will sell a car way before a car gets that high.

So is the volt a good car? yes for some people. but for 40K no its not. the volt is a 30k car at best. if i was going to spend 40k on a car I would get an Audi, BMW, Merc, or sports car. Sorry you dont spend 40k to save gas. you save 35K and buy a 5k car at best.
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:00 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:05 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
You spend more to be an early adopter.
I wonder if people would go for buying say, a $10 lottery ticket with a 0.025% chance of winning a Volt.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:44 AM   #38 (permalink)
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One thing I've failed to understand about the Volt is the high price. The most expensive Prius (list on the Toyota website) is just under $30k. The Volt has a bigger battery, but a much simpler driveline. It should at a minimum be a lot closer to the price of the Prius than to the price of a new Corvette. If I sound bitter, yeah, I'd have loved to have bought one, so don't think I'm hating on the vehicle itself.

I would love for someone to come out with a mod for an extra battery pack and plug-in capability for my Sonata hybrid. It does pretty well on mileage and on the long trip to the in-laws' last weekend we got 45mpg and it was quite happy doing 65mph in EV mode. Just wish I could plug it in, and have more cowbell. I mean battery
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:24 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tugboat View Post
I would love for someone to come out with a mod for an extra battery pack and plug-in capability for my Sonata hybrid. It does pretty well on mileage and on the long trip to the in-laws' last weekend we got 45mpg and it was quite happy doing 65mph in EV mode. Just wish I could plug it in, and have more cowbell. I mean battery
I would suggest starting a thread about that right here on ecomodder.com and doing it yourself with the help of other members.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:07 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Yeah, I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. I blame lack of my morning coffee at that point for the lapse

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