special V8 multifuel vehicle

[user removed]

The deposits from combining EGR and PCV are almost all from the EGR. In the 76 280 Z I had long ago there was no EGR and it came from the factory that way in Federal emissions form. It also had no catalytic converter.

The inside of the manifold had a light broown tint from the PCV, but without EGR there was absolutely no buildup.

Glad to see you are still here dusty, looks like you are getting something worth reading.
Not my field of expertise, I'm chasing different pathways.

regards
Mech

[Superfuelgero]

If you want to be able to run any of those, get a turbine. They are decently priced as military surplus. The whole ROI thing is going to take a long time to happen though.

For your use, you'd be better off with W85 in a chipped powerstroke, and following the 100+ mods list.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Wont heating the heavy oils leave slug and carbon deposits in all kinds of places where you dont want them?

Ash mainly.

[dustyfirewalker]

Originally Posted by xntrx

If you want to be able to run any of those, get a turbine. They are decently priced as military surplus. The whole ROI thing is going to take a long time to happen though.

For your use, you'd be better off with W85 in a chipped powerstroke, and following the 100+ mods list.


Ash mainly.

i agree a turbine would be able to digest all the fuels i want to run, in any combination aswell, if the fuel pump and delivery were set up right. i dont know if im ready to commit to a turbine powered vehicle though..

and yes a waste oil powered diesel is a proven way to get what im after.

the ash part im not sure about, usually with waste oil heaters a full blown flame will give ash build up on the flue which is relatively harmless non sticky thin layered chaulky stuff, but from what ive seen with my buddy who has a waste oil heater if you dont have the nozzle the right size for pretty close to correct lean mixture you get a sort of build up thats thicker, and black it reminded me more of the inside of valve covers on an old motor. i think based on the fact im mixing the air and fuel with a quadrajet i think it will be too rich and definitely not hot enough for the white chaulky ash to form. hopefully i wont be dealing with enough buildup to make this impractical but i wont know till i try. according to marcello he says he doesnt get a lot of buildup that gums up the heat exchanger, but im not sure how much he uses his generator, alot of what happens will depend on usage and mixture/temperature.


i will have some sight ports to see whats going on in there. ive got a few back up ideas for the way i end up heating the air and fuel, but my first step is to get my quadrajet working flawlessly for this particular engine. after that i can try a few various ways of heating air and fuel.


i just got to keep goin

[Mustang Dave]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

This forum is for hobby enthusiasts./..... It probably will not pay off. Almost NONE of the mods on this site pay off so lets be honest about that. But he can learn something, and so can we.

Well stated. The ONLY mod that EVER made a significant difference in fuel economy on my '07 Mustang and my '89 F-250 was "adjusting the nut behind the steering wheel".

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Turbines are interesting, but still seem more suitable to a serial hybrid.

[dustyfirewalker]

so in my limited spare time i decided to throw some numbers at what im suggesting. i never really liked thermo but i do appreciate its usefulness

without getting to numbers intensive i found again what i saw earlier 1100 watts of heat isnt much for vaporizing/ cracking the mass flow requirements i need for this engine.

1100 watts would provide latent heat of vaporization energy adequately if the air and fuel were already near exhaust temps. but that is a harder to design setup, i think im switching my approach.


i am following a few simple ideas and hopefully they will guide me to what im looking for.

1 use a good "stock" carburetor: a proper sized and jetted carb dumps in a good ratio of fuel and air up to a certain cfm. this means based on the throttle position i have a certain amount of air and a certain amount of liquid being atomized. nothing but the engine demand and adjusted settings effect this. once the electric choke is open a little bit more throttle translates to more fuel and air. very simple

2 do not restrict intake size: for my specific engine im going with the cross sectional area of a 4" pipe to ensure i dont repeat the main reason my geet didnt work. paul pantone told me dual 3/4"
(with a rod resticting most of that) hoses would feed a 460

3 make intake vapors rise: what i had been looking at before is a spacer with a heating coil. i dont like this idea anymore since it doesnt ensure everything that has been atomized gets vaporized. allowing unvaporized/cracked oil to get into the cylinder will cause smoke and it doesnt have the correct octane properties to resist detonation. there has to be a rise with a hot bottom. anything that doesnt vaporize or smoke will collect in the bottom. with exhaust heating the right areas it can reduce the intake "pooling" . as oil is exposed to intense heat, its smoke point begins to drop(if it doesnt smoke right away), any contaminants in the oil reduce its smoke point, and any other hydrocarbons with lower vaporization temps reduce the thicker oils vaporization temp and smoke point.


4 i calculated what it takes for 500 cfm (about what my mild build 460 needs. it has a torque cam, stops any real power around 4500-5000 rpm) i have driven it and seen yes it doesnt pull hard past 4500, and based on what ive seen 500 cfm max is a good estimate. i broke it down into idle, 1/2 throttle, and max throttle. and based on the specific heat of air, and a few various hydrocarbons i can say based on my math enough energy is available in the exhaust to heat 500 cfm of air and atomized hydrocarbons from 100 to 700 degrees F with energy left over. for this engine in stock form 180 kw of exhaust heat is going straight out the tailpipe at WOT. and only around 113kw is needed to get the air and fuel up to 700 deg f and vaporized at WOT.



so im going to build an exhaust heat exchanger instead of electrical heat X. i have a body lift for next to nothing and it will give me just enough room to run 4" pipe from the carb to the exhaust area then back to the intake with a 2-3ft rise, plenty of flow, and plenty of heat. its basically a scaled up version of what ive seen marcello build. parts are coming in the mail and the next pictures i post i figured i should throw this out there so who ever reads can see what im doing now as opposed to what i said earlier.


as the engine sits now:
new radiator, 4 row
good q jet, definitely a little lean, not pig rich and crisp throttle response
good HEI distributor 12 base 34 all in
getting a different set of plugs, more like the ones the 460 carbed engines run, along with custom length plug wire kit that i will thermally wrap and protect.

got lots of new parts coming, last few parts before the entire driveline has everything serviced/replaced, and im about to get into a GIANT mess of wiring. i want it clean and professional. also body lift and body bushings replaced then i can route this large pipe for my hot vapor carb multifuel experiment.


take care, i have to study electromagnetic vector calculus so i may not be back online for a few days

[mikeyjd]

Subscribed!

[dustyfirewalker]

OK!

Its been a while, school and work never end. i have everything for a brand new custom wiring system coming in the mail. ive ripped out all the original wiring, searched and labeled every circuit i need in whats left of the original harness. i have hundreds of feet of 4 awg- 8,10,12,14,16 awg and im using all new components such as circuit breakers and solid state relays, waterproof multi contact connectors, new terminals, brake controller, solid state running light/brake light blinker 3 wire converter, wire organization/ thermal protection sleeve, heat shrink, electrical tape, and fuse blocks and new electrical and mechanical switches in the steering column rebuild. the solid state relays will be bolted to a heatsink under the dash. and 16 switches in a panel will go on the shifter floorboard pan with battery selector. new steering wheel, and found a sweet deal on some ballistic kevlar, and have my seat heating pad kit.



ill have pics up in a while, ive also drawn out exactly what im doing on the multifuel idea.

im buying a set of headers and making a intake charge(fuel and air) heat exchanger so that the q jet dumps fuel and air into dual 3" pipes that are heated by the headers, then rise to the intake manifold. i have a few sketches, and ive already found the parts i need to make it all work, mostly tubing and flanges, the total price for the parts is around $1000. and thats about what i spent on all this wiring stuff. but this is about to get really fun!

on monday im picking up another used 460 efi engine, this way ill have an easy way to make it fit my exact engine in the bronco.

also my buddy is cutting out the wood panels im going to cover with kevlar and resin, i already have the 12" subs and 6x9 speakers. there will be 4 12" subs and 4 6x9's the amps boast 6000 watts max and 3000 watts max which we all know isnt RMS, but thats what they say lol ive got matching tv stereos for the boat and truck incase i loose a faceplate, im also getting a bit of window tint to redo the power windows. every window but the windshield will be 5% windshield at 35%

im getting two lockboxes to go under my front bench seat, nice place for 9mm

i have bought a large amount of 1000D cordura. its water proof and i like it enough i think im going to cover the front and rear seats with it, and maybe a little used on the rear panel upholstery inside the back of the bronco. this stuff seems pretty rugged and durable. kind of like extremely strong thick and waterproof backpack synthetic material.

almost done fabbing the rear tire swing away aswell

ive been buying a bunch of stuff and in 2 weeks my schedule will clear up for the summer. ill be making real progress then.

peace

PICS EDIT


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junk wires are gone, and the ones left will be more organized soon

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when i have some real progress ill put up more pics. im doing the following:

1 body lift and new body to frame bushings
2 run a metric sh*t ton of wires
3 my mom is going to sew my seat covers from cordura
4 mom is also going to sew a tonneau cover out of cordura
5 got a buddy finishing wood cutouts for the stereo
6 same buddy want to do rear tire swing away bumper
7 re tint windows
8 buy parts for multifuel experiment and start welding

[dustyfirewalker]

im interested if anyone would like to explore how much waste heat is available in an exhaust stream, i have calculated this a few times, but im interested to see others take on it, i based it of of the 1/3 work + 1/3 waste radiator heat +1/3 waste exhaust heat.

i have taken header pipe temps on a 460 efi in our ford, i got 700 deg f right at the header flange

Stock Horsepower is 245@4,000rpm.Torque is 400 lb.-ft.@2,400rpm.Compression ratio is 8.5:1.Some '96&'97 EFI460s had 8.8:1.



my guess is 500 cfm needed for this mild 460 based on this calculator and my experience so far driving with the quadrajet, it is tuned about what a 350 would have for jets and needles. thought that was interesting, runs pretty well now but im sure some tweaking is still necessary.

Carb CFM Calculator

does anyone have experience with heat exchangers? im trying to find out a good way to find the needed surface area for transferring the heat to the intake stream from an exhaust stream? it has to go through a metal pipe, alloy unknown possibly stainless, thickness to be decided. im using a set of headers and another 460 efi (for dirt cheap) to bolt and test fit the "system" while its being fabricated, that way its a perfect fit on the 88 460 efi i have in the truck. im going to weld the heat exchanger onto the headers to effectively do several things: heat air and fuel after atomization from the quadrajet carb, then make the vapors rise a distance to minimize the possibility of unvaporized fuel making it to the intake of the engine. any atomized fuel will fall to the hot bottom of the intake pipe and be vaporized before continuing through the system. i would like to find a nice number for the surface area needed to transfer the energy available in the exhaust to the intake stream. im basically trying to build a scaled up version of marcello's small engine units to test the ability of pouring filtered flammable waste into my fuel tank. i decided to do another rough sketch and ill be posting more of these

ill post my math on using the specific heats on various hydrocarbons along with latent heat of evaporation and the combined energy needed to heat the intake stream and vaporize oils and gasoline, the bottom line is that according to my numbers the energy is available, and there is more energy in the exhaust than what is needed to do what im asking.




a few additional pics:

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[oil pan 4]

Maybe instead of exhaust heat you should use coolant.
I have a pretty useful heat exchanger for something like this. They are made of stainless steel and should work with exhaust or coolant as the heating medium.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ler-29085.html