special V8 multifuel vehicle

[dustyfirewalker]

HELLO EVERYBODY

first off, ive seen plenty of people get torched on many websites, including this one, and ive been burned on a few forums aswell, im not here to measure whats in my pants or to compare with yours.. lol

i just want to gain and share some knowledge, so here we go!

so just like everyone else here, kinda sick of shelling out money on fuel for driving.. got to thinking a few years back, theres got to be something i can do, something cheaper, with plenty of power, and easy enough to drive without too many problems. ive seen veggie oil, black diesel, woodgas, aluminium oxide +hydrogen production, ethanol stills, fuel cells, hho, the GEET device (and met paul pantone who took my money and lied to me), and many many other things that would peak interest for those interested in alternative energy. but what im looking at lately seems to be a bit different than anything ive been able to find, i believe some older engines were able to accomplish this, and so im going to give it a shot: burning flammable liquid wastes in a spark ignited engine. after retrofitting a brand new big block ford 460 with a geet, and seeing it fall on its face with no power, but smelling a moderately clean exhaust, and trying some other gasoline vapor experiments, trying some oil vapor experiments, and reading a few good articles (some on this site) about using diesel blended with gasoline, and veggie oil blended with gasoline in a spark engine, well guys i would like to see if you have any thoughts, or would share experiences of experimentation with me, im all up for sharing what ive done.

ive read about the old fordson tractors and their ability to burn middle distillates, and even seen more recent engines burn heavier oils, and im not just interested in the oils, im thinking any of the following would be great to throw in the fuel tank : ATF, SVO, BD, WMO, E85, E100, diesel, gasoline, stale gasoline, kerosene, used paint thinner, used hydraulic oil, straight crude oil, axle fluid, used cleaning solvent, any alcohol / flammable liquid i can find. alot of these dont have the octane rating for just being atomized and burned in the cylinder, but i have found out some interesting things that make this possible. if you take ANYTHING, and heat it up to the point it smokes, or wants to burn, and either dont let it burn, or limit the time it can burn, you get a flammable "smoke" or syngas. this applies to anything. take oxygen away from heat and fuel you get smoke that can be oxidized in the engine cleanly. woodgas is a perfect example of the above concept, but because of the feed stock tars can form and if they arent dealt with the engine will gum up. hydrocarbons dont form the same kinds of tars, look into your intake manifold after 100,000 miles of EGR and fuel atomizing and tell me its super clean, and if its not clean, go ahead and tell me how those carbon deposits clogged valves and killed the engine. basically there is a fine line between too dirty, and sort of dirty but not hurting anything....

so what ive seen most of the older engines use to get middle distilates to burn is the following:

1 hot spot intake

2 water/steam added to intake charge for high CR

3 low compression ratio

4 preheated fuel line

5 start up / shut down on gasoline

6 mix gasoline with middle distillates (TVO)

7 using heat to vaporize any flammable liquid into a flammable vapor that has qualities similar to wood gas (high octane, low BTU, clean burn) i found this in old patents and have seen it work myself



what ive seen the newer engines use to burn multiple fuels:

1 hot spot intake

2 water/steam added to intake charge for high CR

3 low compression ratio

4 preheated fuel line

5 start up / shut down on gasoline

6 mix gasoline with middle distillates

7 plasma ignition

8 hho/hydrogen/methane/propane injected as the extra help burning middle distillates

9 Hercules multi fuel duece diesel engine with special burn chamber/ IP/ injectors suited for just about anything flammable even if it contains water

10 using heat to vaporize any flammable liquid into a flammable vapor that has qualities similar to woodgas (high octane, low BTU, clean burn)


sort of seems like theres several ways to skin this cat, and im interested in the best combination of : the easiest, cheapest, most reliable, least maintenance, with no tailpipe smoke. in my opinion i dont care if my v8 truck gets 10 mpg if im only pouring in 25% or less of the gasoline it chugs now.. right now it gets 10 mpg, has tons of power, and is loads of fun, but i can blow through 100$ + in gas every single week! gas today is around $3.30 ish per gal


//edited for length...

[user removed]

Oh Lordy, this should be interesting.

Here is an interesting link that I think will be a part of the future of internal combustion technology.

Transonic Combustion | Revolutionizing Combustion Technology

regards
Mech

[sarguy01]

Welcome. I hope you have thick skin as you mentioned some "Unicorn Corral" items...HHO and plasma...

Why did you choose a big block 460 if you are looking for better mileage???

[user removed]

I've got a suggestion and it assumes you use your truck as primary transportation.

Look at my gaslog entries summation just below my handle for this forum.

I bought this bike for $650 with 3300 miles. It gets around 75 MPG in winter.

You cost per mile is 33 cents and you drive around 300 miles a week.

Buy a bike like this and ride it instead of the truck. If you use it for 50% of those trips you would save $50 a week, that's $2500 a year and less wear on the truck.

regards
Mech

[dustyfirewalker]

Thanks for the link, i think that direct injection with gasoline engines would be a great improvement. really if we made it right, you could pour anything flammable in the tank, within reason... if its been filtered right..

and i actually have an 02 yzf 600r, its fast and its fun, dont know the mpg but $20 in premium fills it up and lasts a good while.

and as far as picking a big block, with this particular vehicle and a lift kit, i couldnt go 65 with a head wind. so i opted for the big block 460 efi, and now since it gets about the same horrible mileage as the 351 efi ive looked into alternative fuels. worst case i can sell the 460 and get a good diesel set up for the truck, but id like to try this first

and i do know that lots of people who look into hho throw out the conservation of energy argument, but in my situation im looking for complete combustion, (if theres smoke in the tailpipe, then ill be looking into trying it) and you should really look into plasma ignition, its simple and its like turning your tiny little spark into a welding arc!

[user removed]

Build yourself a still.

You didn't hear that from me and you didn't hear that here, LOL.

regards
Mech

[user removed]

The problem with HHO is the actual energy content in a liter of HHO is equal to the energy in two wood matches. You would have to tow a giant tank of premade HHO to even come close to running the engine.

The conversion losses are abyssmal. It may help in carbureted engines but the cost usually is greater than the gain. Older non computerized diesels may see an improvement which points to a 7.3 liter International turbo replacing the 460 but I would not expect great gains ffrom HHO. Look at the atomic weights of the two elements, the great majority is oxygen. The actual btu energy content is just too low.

Not any flame, just my point of view.

regards
Mech

[sarguy01]

Lifted truck?? 460 big block? Is your current mpg above 10?? Why bother? Being eco friendly is also a change of mindset. Do you NEED a lifted truck? Probably not, unless you're into mountain rescue or something. I am assuming you drive this truck back and forth to work as well? There is nothing eco friendly about driving a lifted truck to work. Sorry if I am coming off harshly...

Why waste the time and effort on the lifted truck? A 50% improvement to 10 mpg is 15 mpg. Guess what, 15 mpg still sucks!! Spend $2,000 on a used Civic or Metro and get 40+ mpg without doing anything at all. Keep your truck for weekend fun.

I'd skip the experiments of plasma, HHO and alternative fuels. They cost money and usually fail or cannot be proven to work.

High Performance Ignition Systems > Ignition Kits Here is a plasma ignition website. I have no idea who they are. $500 for a system. The payback for a 5% economy increase in my Civic, if there is even any increase at all, would be 125,000 miles. No thanks. Also, take a look at the dyno page. They made more HP with their ignition system, but also advanced the timing. Insane HP and Torque Gains! « Official Aquapulser Blog So, they didn't even do a fair comparison of a stock ignition to their ignition. This is shady business and why I am such a big skeptic on these products.

[wickydude]

I'm really with the others above. Getting a second small vehicle is much cheaper.

You'd better start with budgeting, see if you ever get a return on investment in a decent period of time.
Assuming you can actually get all those things you mention up and running reliably.

If you really need to use a big truck all the time, trade it in for a diesel version.

[JRMichler]

Just passing on what I was told....

How to run a farm tractor on kerosene. The story dates to the Depression, when kerosene was much cheaper than gasoline. Start on gasoline, start plowing at full throttle. Put a blanket in front of the radiator. When it starts to boil, switch to kerosene. Keep it boiling while running on kerosene.

Kerosene has very low octane, and tractors in those days had about 4:1 compression ratio.