Speed Kills "myth"

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

That is a flawed conclusion for a number of reasons, which is why I didn't suggest it. I guess this makes you that guy.

OK, so I'm "that guy" (whatever "THAT" means...)

It is not in poor taste to say something that is objectively true. Privates on leave are precisely "highschool kids out on prom night." They need to be supervised by NCOs. But ask yourself why so many Army recruits are gung-ho yet they drive jacked up, fullsize trucks and SUVs at fast and furious speeds.

You can't explain that.

There is no need to try to explain that, because there is no proof that it is objectively true. Your contention that "so many Army recruits are gung-ho yet they drive jacked up, fullsize trucks and SUVs at fast and furious speeds" may be your personal belief, but it is not a provable fact. We have no way of knowing whether it is true or not, nor to what extent it may be relevant.

So much for your claim of objectivity...

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by P-hack

I wonder how us 'murricans would do on the german driving tests

Well, first you would need to fly there, then take the required coarsework which you have to pay for completely out of pocket, then you would need to pay thousands in fees (let alone the cost of the car) to allow the car to run and drive and park in germany.
Then you if you pass required coarsework and fill out the 15 forms in the correct order
you get the opportunity to pay $3500 to take the drivers training test.
If you pass you then get to pay several more $$$$'s to handle the fees, approval and get the required licenses.

And no, I am NOT kidding.

When you need to pay $10k to initially get on the road you are gonna be a DAMN good driver so you don't have to pay it all over again.

[P-hack]

I mostly like that driving isn't a gimmie over there, and that driving like an a$$hat is expensive. I would have been cursing as a stone broke lad though, but more dependent on public trans isn't all bad either.

[Frank Lee]

Nope, I'm not going to advocate for expensive driving privileges- it's not necessary and it would further the have/have not gap which is already quite large.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Nope, I'm not going to advocate for expensive driving privileges- it's not necessary and it would further the have/have not gap which is already quite large.

I am no fan of "monetary" tests either. harder tests or limitations on new drivers, yes, more money no.

I would like to see fuel economy as a required test though

[P-hack]

It is too easy to get a license here (US) though, we see it as a right-come-entitlement and not a privilege which it is. Same with "cheap" gas. I understand the gap issue, but we worry more about someone getting to work the next day vs forcing them to think through that next daytona-style pass on the outside move (or that slow poke in the left lane move). It seems plausible that rmay has a valid hypothesis, though I wonder what costs (and enforcement) vs safety are like in other countries.

Instead we hand out hardship licenses after numerous violations and supervisions, or often just plain look the other way if you are not a citizen and don't even have a license.

And they actually have High Speed trains there. We have dogsnot. I get that it is a chicken and an egg thing, just saying if "safety" is the concern then making all us trained monkeys think before we act (abusing privilege) is good.

[P-hack]

Oh, and apparently the high speed trains are electric (without needing fancy batteries), with a large renewable component, and they have an extensive network with some measure of privatization, serving even small villages. I'm not really sure where the have-not gap is when you look at the situation in the states. You are pretty much stuck with a car here unless you live/work in the city. I would gladly read a book vs drive.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by P-hack

I have to think about the relation to training (and implied social expectations).

I wonder how us 'murricans would do on the german driving tests

For those of you who think that only "'murricans" are deficient in driving skills or having common sense:

click here

Einstein had it right when he said that there are limits to human intelligence, but there is no limit to human stupidity.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Xist

That is not the point. It was a simulation, but my city worked best with trains instead of cars.

Except that is something the creators of SimCity built into the game, not necessarily a reflection of reality.

You also have to consider that not everyone lives in cities (or wants to), and that cities would quickly die without the efforts of lots of non-city people.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by P-hack

Oh, and apparently the high speed trains are electric (without needing fancy batteries), with a large renewable component, and they have an extensive network with some measure of privatization, serving even small villages.

High speed trains ...

Horribly expensive, both the trains and the required infrastructure.
So expensive they'll never pay for themselves.
Sharing the rails with slower trains adds complexity - and even more cost.
You need long stretches of extra tracks and some serious planning to get slow traffic out of the way of the HST.

If you google Fyra, you can see what a disaster the HST train between Brussels and Amsterdam has become.
Information on fyra.com is completely bogus : service has been suspended due to abysmal reliability and severe safety reasons.
Fyra usually blocked the track completely, and as a safety measure, in both directions ...


HSTs are even more intrusive on the landscape than a highway, as corners and grades are very limited.


If you let them serve small villages, it's not a HST anymore.


The electricity can have a renewable component, but it doesn't necessarily.
Unless the train company buys into renewable electricity on a grand scale, it'll be nukes, gas and coal ...


Trains are usually safe.
But when things go wrong with a HST at speed, they go seriously wrong.


Over here, they're government - read union - controlled, so they are the ones who decide wether or not your train will be running ...
For me, that's enough to pass 'm up.