Spreading the Word, or Help with Ecomodding Discussions

[Piwoslaw]

I'm probably not the only one here who gets into discussions about things related to automotive efficiency: aerodynamics, safety, engine operation and efficiency, etc. In particular, grille blocks, wheel skirts, tire inflation pressure, Kammbacks and boattails, mooncaps, pulse & glide, coasting, etc. Sometimes a friend or family member can't believe that a roof extension helps aerodynamics, or that the car dealer lied when he said that the huge spoiler improves fuel economy. Other times I throw my two cents into a discussion at a forum and all hell breaks loose. When I try to explain in a simple manner I get accused of being naive, when I go into details I see that people get lost and start knit-picking, probably thinking that if they don't understand something then I'm definately lying.

Sometimes the arguments I give aren't enough to get others to believe/understand me, so some external help would be nice. As many hard facts as possible. The best would be a bunch of links to more or less scientific papers that would show I'm not the only heretic out there, but that I actually know what I'm talking about. The least is to get others to see that I still have my marbles (most of them, anyway ), better would be to show them that they've got the wrong picture in their head. I know that getting everyone to switch to my side of the Force is asking too much, but I want the person(s) I'm disputing with to understand I'm not a freak, and hopefully any bystanders to see that my arguments are stronger than my opponent's. This isn't an ego thing, I don't want others to say "Oh, you're sooooo smart". I just want others to understand how things work and see how things can easily be made more efficient. And to understand that nothing is holy just because the car company did or said so.

I'd like this thread to be collection of information and tips on how to spread the ecomodding word, what to pay attention to, which arguments work and which only result in more questions and/or aggression. As I mentioned earlier, links to hard numbers are very welcome! Also, we can share some interesting/funny stories about discussions we've had, not to get a laugh but to see what kind of reactions to expect and how to deal with them.

I know that at least 30% of the threads at EcoModder qualify, but sifting through umpteen threads about grille blocks or belly pans is timeconsuming and may not find you more than umpteen threads of opinions and butt-o-meter testing, not hard info.

[Piwoslaw]

I'll start with a discussion on grille blocks that sprung up at the Polish Peugeot forum. Why is it that whenever I comment on anything the discussion dial suddenly goes up to "HEATED"?

So, now that we're getting temperatures below -10*C someone innocently asks about covering the radiator. Someone answered that it's a good idea for a 40 year old truck, but not for a new passenger car. I remarked that the newest Peugeot 308 has an optional grille block, as vtec-e mentioned. I ranted on a little about efficiency and so on, but one of the members didn't want to hear any of it. Long story short, I pretty much had to explain the tinyest details of how the engine's cooling system works. I had to explain why a cold engine is not good and why the warm-up should be sped up whenever possible ("So what's the diff if my temp needle starts to budge sooner or later?"). Any mistakes, or even typos, that I made were held against me. I posted a picture of my openable grille block to show that it's possible to not worry about overheating, but someone replied "And don't show off what you've got 'cause it'll make you look more rednecky". I had to explain why cars don't have grille blocks, I added that this is changing, with BMW leading the way.

I've used up my arsenal of arguments (and words that don't need censoring), I need help. Does anyone have a link to any kind of test done with a grille block? Or info on whether a slightly higher temperature is good/bad. Or maybe a picture of a new BMW where the openable grille block is visable? And I don't mean this:



Any hard info is appreciated.
Thanks

[ncs]

1. Post facts
2. Get ingored/called an idiot
3. Move on

[Christ]

We just had a thread like this with MadisonMPG from a Dodge forum. The fact is, you just have to put down what you know, what you can find, remain level headed and calm, ignore the saracsm and witless remarks, and hope that somewhere in the world, a lurker is reading your post while ordering some coroplast.

Best of luck to ye, sir.

[gone-ot]

...uh, something about "opinions & bodily orifices" and that fact that "...everybody has one (or two)" comes to mind here.

[solarguy]

Unfortunate facts of life:

1. There are an enormous number of dumb people in the world who are unimpressed with facts and truth.
2. There are a lot of ignorant people in the world who must be exposed to the same facts 2 or 3 times from 3 or 4 different sources before they recognize the truth.

So, you just try to recognize the people in the first group and move on. But, the people in the second group, you're actually doing them some good. The 4th time they hear that fact, a tiny little bell will go off in their head, "You know, I think some guy from ecomodder tried to tell me that a year ago."

So yeah, just go plant those seeds.

We're on a mission from GOD. (reference from the movie, the Blues Brothers, for those that didn't catch it.)

troy

[gone-ot]

...remember the "Bell Curve"? There's lots of people in the "middle" and "few" in each "end."

...those in the "middle" don't care, don't want to care, and won't care if danger smacked them in their face.

...those at either "end" either already care, or care TOO much.

...remember the "Bell Curve!" when you're thinking about people.

[orange4boy]

Grille block and test by the famous MetroMPG:

Testing grille blocking & wheel skirts: +5.7% improvement - MetroMPG.com

The graph is a good one to post at your site.

Ask them how well their cars would do with wings and an aviation engine strapped to it. It wouldn't fly. Too heavy, underpowered and not aero enough. That might get them to see things from a different perspective.
Show them a Porsche 911 without a grille. Hmm.. never thought of that did they?

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by solarguy

Unfortunate facts of life:

1. There are an enormous number of dumb people in the world who are unimpressed with facts and truth.
2. There are a lot of ignorant people in the world who must be exposed to the same facts 2 or 3 times from 3 or 4 different sources before they recognize the truth.

I try not to cross paths with the first type. It's the second type I'm aiming at. I'm hoping that the more information I throw at them, the more of it will stick.

Originally Posted by orange4boy

Grille block and test by the famous MetroMPG:

Testing grille blocking & wheel skirts: +5.7% improvement - MetroMPG.com

The graph is a good one to post at your site.

Thanks, I'll post the link and see what happens.

BTW: That's the page I found when googling wheel skirts a long time ago. From there I found EcoModder.com and my world suddenly changed. That's the page that started it all. Thanks to MetroMPG

[tasdrouille]

If you want references there are a few here.