Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-18-2008, 05:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,527

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 65.39 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,976 Times in 3,612 Posts
OK, pardon the poor image quality - because these are screen caps from some poor quality video.

Road speed is 70 km/h (43.5 mph)



Top = no vg's; bottom = vg's @ trailing edge of roof.

It's hard to see in the top pic, but the closest, middle three light colour tufts were swirling randomly, standing up at times.

FYI, the airtabs were duct taped to the roof of the car to facilitate installation/removal. The tape is flush on the roof & Airtab surfaces (the boundary layer here is significantly thicker than the tape anyway, so it would not affect the results).

Eight were installed (yes, one is black, the others are all white).



In this pic, the car is going about 50 km/h (30 mph).

Bad photography on the upper image. But you can even see the light coloured tuft on the right side of the center mounted brake light is standing up off the trunk lid.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	corolla-tuft-test-caps.jpg
Views:	1088
Size:	24.0 KB
ID:	1467   Click image for larger version

Name:	corolla-tuft-test-vg-driveb.jpg
Views:	1096
Size:	103.3 KB
ID:	1469  
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-18-2008, 06:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
chuckm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 308

Exploder - '02 Ford Explorer xlt

Rolla - '02 Toyota Corolla ce
Team Toyota
90 day: 44.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 11
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
That's pretty dramatic. Where did you get the VGs?
__________________
"Jesus didn't bring 'Natty Lite' to the party. He brought the good stuff."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 07:10 PM   #23 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 204

- - '10 Toyota Prius III w/Navi
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Hi MetroMPG,

I think the Airtabs are too tall for cars. My guess is they need to be about 1/3 the height. The boundary layer on the low energy vertical side of a truck near the rear is very thick. On a car, its much less.

You might try shaving down the central blade on them , and filling the gap with silicone sealer, epoxy or body filler. Then shape it smooth and blend in.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 07:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 204

- - '10 Toyota Prius III w/Navi
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Hi MetroMPG,

Looking at your pictures more carefully, you probably do not need the two outside Airtabs. Also, your spacing is much closer than recommended. So, loose two on the inside, and respace out the remaing four.

Remember each airtab creates two vortices. This is unlike the simple delta shaped VG's, which only create one vortice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 07:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Motor City
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Nice job, they sure LOOK like they'd make a significant, positive difference in FE. The improvement in flow is so obvious that the lack of a clear, positive FE test result is very surprising.

The fact that the FE is unchanged, plus the extra noise, makes the pretty flow pattern pretty unimportant for everyday use. I guess I'd leave them off, or retry the FE tests at a higher speed to confirm the non-improvement.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 07:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,527

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 65.39 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,976 Times in 3,612 Posts
Hi Donee -

Mitsubishi measured the boundary layer thickness at the trailing edge of the Evo roof at 30 mm - just over 1 inch, which is close to the height of the AirTabs (1 inch = 25.4 mm).

In testing different VG heights, Mistubishi says:

Quote:
...the drag reduction effects for the VGs of three different heights (15 mm, 20 mm and 25 mm) were all equivalent to –0.006.
That's not to say the AirTab is the ideal shape though. Again going back to the Mitsu example, they specifically chose a VG style (delta-wing shape) because it had a small frontal area. The AirTabs seem to have quite a large frontal area (even considering they create a pair of vortices), and that may be part of the reason why they didn't reduce overall drag & show any fuel economy improvement.

chuckm - an AirTabs distributor sent some to me.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 07:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,527

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 65.39 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,976 Times in 3,612 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by donee View Post
Looking at your pictures more carefully, you probably do not need the two outside Airtabs.
Agreed there, after seeing the non-vg tuft results on the sides of the rear window.

Quote:
Also, your spacing is much closer than recommended.
Actually, they were slightly wider than recommended (which is 4 inches on center from the installation PDF). These were set at about 4.5 inches on center.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 07:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,527

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 65.39 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,976 Times in 3,612 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by garys_1k View Post
Nice job, they sure LOOK like they'd make a significant, positive difference in FE. The improvement in flow is so obvious that the lack of a clear, positive FE test result is very surprising.
I'll admit my jaw dropped when I saw the obvious change in flow shown by the tufts!

But I had to keep reminding myself: vortex generators themselves create drag. If the size, style & placement isn't optimized, you can end up with a net increase in drag (or zero sum gain), even while you apparently improve downstream flow.

We could just as easily stick a wind deflector at the trailing edge of the roof to force air down the rear window and tidy up the tufts. But we'd end up with turbulence aft of the deflector negating the gain of the improved flow on the glass/trunk lid.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 09:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
chuckm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 308

Exploder - '02 Ford Explorer xlt

Rolla - '02 Toyota Corolla ce
Team Toyota
90 day: 44.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 11
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Well, these two videos are based on my 02 corolla...
First, without the vortex generator
__________________
"Jesus didn't bring 'Natty Lite' to the party. He brought the good stuff."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 10:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,527

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 65.39 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,976 Times in 3,612 Posts
Chuck - is it really a vortex generator in that simulation, or just a 2d bump?

Videos coming shortly.

__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vortex generators - where's the solid data for hatchback/van benefits? MetroMPG Aerodynamics 70 03-14-2012 12:25 PM
Belly pan or vortex generators? edbso Aerodynamics 125 02-22-2011 12:50 PM
Honda's OEM vortex generators ... on the Ridgeline pickup mirrors MetroMPG Aerodynamics 21 12-06-2008 01:09 PM
Review: 2009 Toyota Corolla LE (37.9 MPG) RH77 General Efficiency Discussion 22 05-09-2008 04:55 PM
Win an EM Sticker: guess Dad's mileage (Toyota Corolla automatic). Ends Jan 13. MetroMPG Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 51 02-07-2008 09:02 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com