are there any practical things we can do with hot radiator water ?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by chuckm

A small portion of waste heat could be used to bring the temperature of the gasoline, just prior to injection, to around 150ºF. The components will volatilize easier.

+1 to this suggestion, after the thermostat of coarse.

As for steam its best made on the cat and ducted up the intake on most cars, a warm intake is usually good for FE but not performance. Effects certain hondas the most.

[Frank Lee]

No! Not heated fuel again!

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

No! Not heated fuel again!

Its almost a necessity if you run e85 in the winter just to start

[Frank Lee]

How does heating E85 fuel aid winter starting?

[noeryan]

Isn't passenger heat from the coolant system anyway? I believe my gas guzzler (Chevy Tahoe) had a vacuum switch that flipped a valve open and allowed the coolant into a coil with a blower.

Reason it takes a few minutes to heat up... it has to wait on the thermo to open first.

[chuckm]

I must be missing something on the heated fuel... I may be ignorant, but I'm not dumb. I had thought that the energy added would have aided volatalization during injection, but I'm willing to learn why that wouldn't positively affect combustion. I had thought that such was the concept behind the FuelVapor Technologies xprize entry, the ale'.

[basslover911]

Originally Posted by chuckm

I must be missing something on the heated fuel... I may be ignorant, but I'm not dumb. I had thought that the energy added would have aided volatalization during injection, but I'm willing to learn why that wouldn't positively affect combustion. I had thought that such was the concept behind the FuelVapor Technologies xprize entry, the ale'.

A lot of people are against it because of how "dangerous" it might be.

I, however, am all for this (like you said, that IS what fuelvapor tech is doing anyways).

However, you have to increase temps to much higher than that, something like 200-250 degrees. AND be able to control that temp to not go over. Remember, the system is pressurized to around 50psi so the self ignition of gas rises considerably, which is what people don't really realize and that's why they say its "unsafe".

Again, you must get it pretty hot though. I plan on doing this myself someday, but I first have to see what the temp at my fuel rail is right now (probably around 100 degrees).

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

How does heating E85 fuel aid winter starting?

Alcohol fuels simply don't want to spark ignite at cold temperatures, the remedy for E85 based cars that was offered is to have e70 but at below zero temps it still won't burn. My next door neighbor had a Taurus that ran on e85 and it was a bear to get started, impossible below zero, he wrapped the fuel filter is some heat wire along with the block heater and the car would start OK with some cranking, as opposed to sit there doing nothing.

e85 and alcohol fuels are best used in the tropics not up north where they won't light.

Originally Posted by basslover911

A lot of people are against it because of how "dangerous" it might be.

I, however, am all for this (like you said, that IS what fuelvapor tech is doing anyways).

However, you have to increase temps to much higher than that, something like 200-250 degrees. AND be able to control that temp to not go over. Remember, the system is pressurized to around 50psi so the self ignition of gas rises considerably, which is what people don't really realize and that's why they say its "unsafe".

Again, you must get it pretty hot though. I plan on doing this myself someday, but I first have to see what the temp at my fuel rail is right now (probably around 100 degrees).

I am all for it too, especially if combined with a preignition CAT to crack the fuel into a uniform hydrocarbon, the trouble is to really VAPORIZE all of the fuel you need around 500C very very high and a hi pressure injection system. This is because we don't burn napatha or white gas anymore, it has a lot of heavy oil like components as fillers to cheapen the gas that will crud up a vapor system quickly.

However any temperature increase of the fuel increases the vaporization level inside the cylinder and improves emissions and mileage, sadly the best gains are at very high temperatures. Another experimental system that some folks are working on for stationary motors is making a fine gasoline mist with a ultrasonic humidifier and sucking that through a fractioning carb similar to a CNG or propane carb.

[noeryan]

Originally Posted by basslover911

However, you have to increase temps to much higher than that, something like 200-250 degrees. AND be able to control that temp to not go over. Remember, the system is pressurized to around 50psi so the self ignition of gas rises considerably, which is what people don't really realize and that's why they say its "unsafe".

Again, you must get it pretty hot though. I plan on doing this myself someday, but I first have to see what the temp at my fuel rail is right now (probably around 100 degrees).

Doesn't an increase in pressure decrease the Autoignition Temperature?

Plus, isentropic compression of air increases the air's temperature in the cylinder.

I don't wanna be a downer. I've had the same idea, run the gas line through the coolant for a bit to heat it up for volatility but you wouldn't want it to be too volatile and start dieseling. This seems like it is such an easy/cheap fix that a manufacturer would have already been placing these on vehicles...

I'd like to be wrong about this though!

[brucepick]

All this talk of preheating the fuel re-sparked an old idea of mine (pun intended, I guess):

Use the water to preheat the intake air.

Yes, usually it's done at the exhaust manifold. But depending on the car's layout it might be easier to run plumbing to let the intake suck air through a heat exchanger run off the cooling system.

Coolant temp should be pretty consistent once warmed up. When throttle is steady the output air temperature should stay steady. Changes in throttle position will change the intake airflow rate. That will cause some change in achieved air temperature. Not to worry though - I'm sure the temp gain using the exhaust manifold heat varies also, and nobody ever gave that as a reason not to heat the intake air there.