Ticketed for hypermiling

[larrybuck]

First of all, I'm sorry this happened to you Dave. I'm sure that we all feel for you.

Cops are trained to look for things that are odd, or different. I have to agree w SentaSE-R5, and CigaR007's comments on page 3.

You haven't shared w us how many (exactly) cars passed you when you started testing until the cop pulled you over.

I have always had this concern for you guys that pulse, and glide. Greater America just isn't up to speed, on anything perceived as radical. It's like wanting to easily find 100% whole wheat bread some 15 yrs. ago while nation wide traveling.

He only knew you were doing something VERY different! If no cars had passed you at all, it probably wouldn't have changed anything.

As per California98Civic's advice; probably your best bet. I'm afraid you need to swallow this one.

For future reference, when your coast takes you below 45 right signal to the shoulder, 4 way flash until near 45 again left signal out. Thank goodness he doesn't know you are turning your eng. off: all havic would breakout as probably all 50 states have laws against off eng. coasting!

Big brother or someone always seems to be waiting, and watching. On trips w NO cars around, I've had to speed up after a hidden cop spotted me out in the deserted interstate to keep from being pulled over.

Many, many years ago, I got pulled over riding a new Harley: once for very moderate acceleration because I saw rough railroad tracks ahead , and slowed gradually for them. (the cop knew I saw him, and thought I was riding too careful as in maybe

I HAD JUST STOLEN the bike!

The 2nd time I was working on my smoothness w a bigger bike. ( same Harley)

I was cruising in town at the 25 mph limit when the street went slightly uphill to a four way stop. I pulled up so smooth that I was able to put my foot down having never touched the brakes. The cop made me demonstrate 3 times that my brake lights DID work!!!

You just can't look too different!

I guess that kind of kills your testing for that stretch, and time; for now. You don't want to run into that same cop anytime soon.

Keep us updated on what happens.

Sorry for your situation: chin up!

[GRU]

Don't get me wrong, i hope you beat the ticket but if you need to coast down to less than half the speed limit all the time to get good MPG i wouldn't consider that to be safe.

I know how other drivers are, always in a hurry, and even though they are idiots and want to ride our rear bumpers all the time i don't think having them involved in an accident or hurt/killled is worth it.

[user removed]

If it cost you nothing more to go to court, and your wages will not suffer from the absence then go to court.

I once stopped and asked a motorcycle cop if it was ok for me the P&G on a 4 lane, non divided highway with relatively low traffic volume. I told him I was testing a driving technique that required significant variables in speed. He said just use your emergency flashers to let other drivers know you are not driving in a normal fashion.

If you want to win the case.

Got to the same stretch of road and do a traffic count, same time, same day of the week and weather conditions, same circumstances. In Va the drivers manual recommends reducing speed by 50% in bad weather conditions. Are bicycles allowed on the side of the road where you were ticketed?

I had a cop tell me that I was supposed to sit at an intersection and be hit in the rear end and possibly permanently injured, rather than try to get out of the way of a vehicle that was out of control and certainly was about to hit my car at a relatively high speed. This was in a driving class, so his position was official.

I told him that when danger threatened me I had the right to self preservation that overwhelmed any traffic laws. In other words I have the right to protect my life. I also have the right to go to court and plead my position before and judge, not a cop.

Cops issue summons to appear. Fools allow cops to become judge and jury, unless they just screwed up and don't want to be embarrassed in court, or suffer greater punishment.

I have done very well in the few instances when this was necessary, actually having a reckless charge (80+in a 55 zone) tossed after I explained the circumstances to the judge.

If it cost you nothing to present your case then go to court. If you are guilty of an offense that you were unaware of then explain the circumstances and explain what you did to prevent being "any obstruction to the flow of traffic". If the traffic count is a low number and your preventative measures were obvious to those who went around you, then you may prevail, even though you were not legal. Look the man (or woman) in the eye, state you case clearly without anger, aggravation, or any other negatives, just the facts as you interpreted them.

The judge will take every effort you have made to convince him you are innocent of any intentional offense, especially something like the time and energy to do a traffic count. DO NOT criticize the officer, COMPLIMENT him on his diligence in observing your erratic driving. Explain the the judge that you are a safe driver who generally goes slower than the traffic flow and gets astounding mileage out of your huge truck, probably twice the average, and something you are proud of and have spent time to perfect.

"Your honor, I was performing and experiment to determine if it would improve my mileage. I was very cognizant of my not interruptiong the flow of traffic and I was not aware of the minimum speed limitation on that particular stretch of road. Had I known ANY of my actiuons could be interpreted as illegal, I would never have considered such actions. Thank you for the time to allow me to explain this."

When you say this look him squarely in the eye, don't blink rapidly, don't flinch, and don't sweat.

Explain to him that you did not realize that there was a minimum speed, since none was posted. The officer corrected that mistake on your part. HUMILITY will go light years towards your charges being reduced, you declared innocent, or some other more positive result. UNDER NO circumstances show the least amount of respect for the courts time or towards anyone.

I'd bet you win, if you want to call any time spent in court a win.

regards
Mech

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Irrelevant. You're charged with impeding traffic, not with driving a low speed vehicle.

No, actually I'm not charged with impeding normal and reasonable movement of traffic. That's IC 9-21-5-7 (which niether the ticket nor the officer mentioned). I'm charged with IC 9-21-8-24 (slow down or stop that cannot be made with reasonable safety).

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by larrybuck

First of all, I'm sorry this happened to you Dave. I'm sure that we all feel for you.

Cops are trained to look for things that are odd, or different. I have to agree w SentaSE-R5, and CigaR007's comments on page 3.

You haven't shared w us how many (exactly) cars passed you when you started testing until the cop pulled you over.

As far as how many cars passed me I don't know the exact number. I don't usually count. Plus, I don't see how it's all that relevant how many, as long as they could all pass easily in the open left lane. Remember, we got two lanes in each direction. If there were so many cars that both lanes were blocked behind me that would be one thing. I keep my speed up closer to the speed limit when that situation does happen.

As far as cops looking for something odd or different, I completely agree. They're trained to do that and SHOULD do that. I have no problem whatsoever with the officer pulling me over for suspicion.

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

The judge will take every effort you have made to convince him you are innocent of any intentional offense, especially something like the time and energy to do a traffic count. DO NOT criticize the officer, COMPLIMENT him on his diligence in observing your erratic driving. Explain the the judge that you are a safe driver who generally goes slower than the traffic flow and gets astounding mileage out of your huge truck, probably twice the average, and something you are proud of and have spent time to perfect.

"Your honor, I was performing and experiment to determine if it would improve my mileage. I was very cognizant of my not interruptiong the flow of traffic and I was not aware of the minimum speed limitation on that particular stretch of road. Had I known ANY of my actiuons could be interpreted as illegal, I would never have considered such actions. Thank you for the time to allow me to explain this."

When you say this look him squarely in the eye, don't blink rapidly, don't flinch, and don't sweat.

Explain to him that you did not realize that there was a minimum speed, since none was posted. The officer corrected that mistake on your part. HUMILITY will go light years towards your charges being reduced, you declared innocent, or some other more positive result. UNDER NO circumstances show the least amount of respect for the courts time or towards anyone.

I'd bet you win, if you want to call any time spent in court a win.

regards
Mech

Thanks. I like most of what you've said here, especially about respect and humility.

I'm not sure about this part, though:

"Your honor, I was performing and experiment to determine if it would improve my mileage."

I'm not sure a judge would look too kindly on me "performing experiments" on the public roads.

One thing that has occured to me recently is this. The question of "why" is bound to come up. Not that I technically need to have a reason, but it doesn't look good if I don't have one. I've thought about the "I was performing and experiment" reason (which is true) and don't really like it too much. What is true is that I was almost out of fuel and was trying to stretch it too make it into town (where I live) and fill up. That was mostly the reason I did the EOC (which I don't normally do)--I was reasonably sure I could make it into town without running out of fuel but thought I probably should do everything I should to conserve fuel to be safe. When the cop pulled me over I was about a mile from town. I have my reciept from my fillup in the morning (less than 2 miles from where I got pulled over) showing I put 35 gallons in my truck with a 34 gallon tank. I wanted to make it back to that station because I had a $.60/gal discount on 1 fillup (discount is shown on the receipt. I think I like the "I was trying to save fuel because I was on empty" reason much better than the "I was performing an experiment" reason. Both reasons are true, BTW.

[user removed]

Bottom line. Consider me the judge for a moment.
Be concise and Spartan in your testimony.
Tell me the truth without embellishment.
Be respectful of every one here especially me.

If you do these things, and convince me that is your objective, and you do not waste the courts time, you are already doing better than 90% of the Morons who come here with an attitude and lie their arses off trying to convince me they have no guilt.

Sprinkle some humility and acknowledge your error, but add a little of the "it was not intentional or willful, and you will get as close to the results the you wish.

The "I was worried about running out of gas" defense might go either way, but could help in explaining your actions to the point of a not guilty verdict, but stupid is not an excuse, unless you just tell him it was a stupid mistake for which you were trying to compensate for prior bad judgement.

A refreshingly honest conversation with a side order of humility and the ability to accept that you are partially responsible gives him the opportunity to respond with some potentially deserved compassion, while he wades through all of the rest of the crap he has to deal with daily (or her if it applies).

Constant eye contact and direct communication indicate integrity, never forget that.

And don't forget to say "Your Honor" .

When I went to court for my 80+ in a 55 zone 5 over the reckless threshold. I had a document prepared to help me to be precise and concise. While the judge did not accept the document he did seem to consider the preparation involved to be relevant to his decision. I had to go to a driver improvement class and not get a ticket for 6 months. My record was perfect and my explanation was viable and also true.

regards
Mech

[SentraSE-R]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave

No, actually I'm not charged with impeding normal and reasonable movement of traffic. That's IC 9-21-5-7 (which niether the ticket nor the officer mentioned). I'm charged with IC 9-21-8-24 (slow down or stop that cannot be made with reasonable safety).

Sorry. You're correct. This has been an interesting discussion, because most of us can easily picture ourselves standing in your shoes.

When I first moved to Arizona, I remember reading about a horrible accident where a car or van ran into the back of a horse-drawn haywagon at full speed on a state highway on the (now) Tohono O'odham reservation, killing its six or eight occupants. It happened at night, and the haywagon driver was legal. I think all he needed was the reflective red triangle in back, and a white light (he had a kerosene lantern) in front.

Judges hear stories like this all the time.

[Diesel_Dave]

The only time I've even contested a ticket was a couple years ago when I was going to school in Indiana and went back home to Pennsylvania for Thansksgiving. My car was registered in my mother's name and so it was registered and inspected in PA. While I was in IN the inspection had run out. The day after I came back to PA I got pulled over for expired inspection. I told the cop I went to college in IN so I couldn't get the car inspected until I got back. Cop told me that was rediculous and he didn't believe me, and gave me the ticket.

At the time I thought he was a jerk, but that I really didn't have any legal ground to stand on because I WAS operating a vehicle with expired inspection. When I looked into it, however, I found that the law had a provision that if the vehicle has been out of state for at least 30 days you have 10 days upon re-entering the state the get it inspected. So I got a court date for when I went home for Christmas. I showed up with a copy of the law and a whole stack of utility bills and receipts from Indiana. The cop got up and gave his side of the story. I got up and said that I agreed with everything he had said, except he had left out the part where I had told him I'd been out of state. Then I gave the JP a copy of the law and said I had a whole stack of proof that I had been out of state. She read the law, then looked at the cop and asked if he had anything to say. He said no. She said not guilty and that was it.

[MadisonMPG]

Go to court. Be nice, say you didn't do the things you were ticketed for. Should be pretty easy.